Author Topic: Diesel Motorcycles (Read 3628 times)

GroovieGhoulie · « **on:** May 20, 2006, 09:06:19 PM »

How come we don't see anything about Diesel bikes? I only know of one diesel bike, which is the Diesel KLR650 as used by the military. They demand that stuff runs on diesel, so it does. More than 100 MPG out of a torquey big single. If it's tough enough for the military, it should be ok on the street, right?

So why haven't any manufacturers tried something like this, or have they and it didn't pan out? I know diesels don't rev like gasoline engines, but Harleys have notoriously low redlines and I can't imagine a low redline being an issue with a diesel, I mean they have torque everywhere.

The recent fuel thread and fuel costs got me thinking....

ProTeal55 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:07:27 PM »

I have heard rumors of a diesel dirt bike / enduro about to make production, but I am unsure..
It was supposed to come out this fall , by one of the bigtime manf,

As far as diesel being cheap, not for long boys.
Starting calender year 2007, the EPA is demanding that all diesel that is produced be low sulfur.
So, the new heavy duty line of motors in tractors have to be changed to run this new fuel, and burn cleaner.
This added cost ($10,000 per truck) , with the added cost of clean fuel (Said to be $4.50 a gallon) makes Diesel the fuel to stay away from. I am selling my turbo diesel ford excursion and going with a gas powered f150 because I know the change is comming, as I hear/deal with it every day at work..

My 4cents...

GroovieGhoulie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:23:12 PM »

Yeah, but that's because the Diesel we get here in the states is the lowest-grade, sulphur-filled #$%* diesel the oil companies make. They've been foisting this crap on us, while giving the rest of the world the good diesel.

Besides, diesel isn't the big thing, I'm talking about biodiesel and waste vegetable oil. THAT would be the cost-saver.

ElCheapo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:36:06 PM »

I dont know about diesel bikes but I do know so far it looks like Polaris is the only one to make a 4x4 util that is diesel.

mrblasty · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2006, 12:15:02 AM »

Here is an old link, can't remember how I came across the info.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/02/25/thunder-star-1200-diesel-by-star-twin/

bill440cars · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:10:52 AM »

I saw an article on a diesel bike about a month or 2 ago. I can't remember now but,
it had to be either Cycle World or Motorcyclist. I see if I can locate it for so details. I didn't
think too much about it at the time because when I think diesel anything, I think Heavy, Slow
& smelly. I know that technology is changing and all and with a turbo, maybe they have a
future. I'm just thinking that you've got to build it to hold very high compression for
combustion of the diesel fuel. I'll let you'all know if I find that article. Later on, Bill

crazypj · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:02:37 AM »

Quote from: ProTeal55 on May 20, 2006, 11:07:27 PM

I have heard rumors of a diesel dirt bike / enduro about to make production, but I am unsure..
It was supposed to come out this fall , by one of the bigtime manf,

As far as diesel being cheap, not for long boys.
Starting calender year 2007, the EPA is demanding that all diesel that is produced be low sulfur.
So, the new heavy duty line of motors in tractors have to be changed to run this new fuel, and burn cleaner.
This added cost ($10,000 per truck) , with the added cost of clean fuel (Said to be $4.50 a gallon) makes Diesel the fuel to stay away from. I am selling my turbo diesel ford excursion and going with a gas powered f150 because I know the change is comming, as I hear/deal with it every day at work..

My 4cents...

There is no reason other than greed on part of factory (and stupidity on part of customer) to do any modifications to run on low sulpher diesel.
Europe has had low sulpher diesel for years. Diesels were originally designed to run on bio-diesel
USA has been conned into thinking diesels are dirty (look at all the black smoke

) there are issues with PSP10 emmissions but they can/are being filtered.

I have a link to the Marines requirement for KLR650, they needed a bike to run multi fuel, runs on JP8 as well as diesel.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html
http://www.f1engineering.com/diesel%20bike%20specs.html
PJ

bill440cars · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2006, 09:09:04 AM »

pj, A little of the topic (only because it's about trucks) but, the older 2 1/2 ton
military cargo trucks had a "multifuel" engine for years that could run on diesel, JP4 or even
gasoline mixed w/a certain amount of oil. Just some info there.

Also, on a show called "Trucks", they made bio diesel right there on the show
and put it directly into a Dodge w/ the Cummins diesel and showed it being used. Would be
pretty cool if you could make your own fuel. They'd get their money somehow though,
right?

Later on, Bill

bryanj · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2006, 09:44:28 AM »

Many years ago Enfield India produced a bike? with a single cylinder diesel of the "Lister" type, never saw a real one only articles--slower than a 350 bullit, brakes worse and incredibly heavy!! AS to low sulphur diesel the pump and injectors need diferent clearances as it was the sulphur that "lubed" the incredibly tight tolerance parts but apart from that there is no problem

Zeke · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:23:47 AM »

I admit, I'm no genious when it comes to oil refining, but....

I remember learning in school a little bit about the refinery process, and diesel and gasoline are derived from the same raw material (crude oil).

The difference is the gas that we burn in our bikes is simply refined more than diesel is. So it's bull#$%* that it sometimes costs more than gas, because gas costs more to make than diesel fuel. At this point, it's probably a supply/demand issue, or just more oil company raping.

I don't believe that low-sulphur diesel would cost that much more than it does now -- after all, it's still less refined than gasoline.

And, it makes no sense that you would need to make adjustments to burn a cleaner fuel. So don't sell your diesel just yet.

I love big thumpers. I'll be that diesel KLR would be a hoot.

Zeke

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:53:45 AM »

From what I've heard, that KLR is coming, but it's gonna be 'spensive, Lucy.
On the other hand, we have a guy who comes into the shop putting a 2 stroke togeter for a bike (he doesn't want to experiment with a new/good one). He has been running 80/20 bio-diesel/Everclear in his chain saw and weed eater. He has taken the engines apart a couple of times and he says they look good. He's amazed, in fact.
I just wonder if America can eat enough French fries to keep up with the demand for bio-diesel.

Gordon · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2006, 03:02:16 PM »

Quote from: bryanj on May 21, 2006, 09:44:28 AM

Many years ago Enfield India produced a bike? with a single cylinder diesel of the "Lister" type, never saw a real one only articles--slower than a 350 bullit, brakes worse and incredibly heavy!!

There's a guy here in Denver (well, sometimes) who spends part of the year in India buying these old Royal Enfied diesel bikes and shipping them back to Denver to sell. He converted at least one, probably more, to biodiesel. The one in the picture below runs on biodiesel, and smells like fried chicken driving down the road!

Glenn Stauffer · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2006, 03:22:17 PM »

Quote from: GroovieGhoulie on May 20, 2006, 11:23:12 PM

Yeah, but that's because the Diesel we get here in the states is the lowest-grade, sulphur-filled #$%* diesel the oil companies make. They've been foisting this crap on us, while giving the rest of the world the good diesel.

Sure hope they keep a farm-grade diesel on the market (I can get dyed off-road diesel locally now) - I don't want to have to replace my 20 year old Yanmar just yet.

Are you sure we're looking at $4.50 a gallon for the new fuel? Isn't diesel cheaper than gas in Europe where they've been burning the "clean" diesel for quite a while now? At least that's what I thought.

Now, this is what you really want:

http://www.rubbermag.com/news/050315_04n.html

The fuel cell motorcycle.

74cb750 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2006, 05:08:51 PM »

Glenn,
I read about this bike about a year ago. Someone in California was going to import
them in 2006.

Main problem is obtaining the hydrogen, which currently has a greater cost than gasoline
to produce and contain.
peace,
michel

ProTeal55 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:32:34 PM »

Read below......

http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/ngvtf/pdfs/bruce_hodgins2.pdf
http://www.detroitdiesel.com/EPA07/Updates/index.asp
http://fleetowner.com/news/epa_testing_engine_emission_060605/

I have more of this EPA07 crap at work if anyone wants me to send it to them. The changes that the EPA are
gonna push on the heavy duty market in 2010 are gonna make the 2007 changes seem small.

I am getting outta my truck now, before the general public is aware and the prices of diesel powered
passenger trucks begins to fall (which it allready is)...
And yes, Diesel is forecasted to be atleast 50cents more than premium gasoline by summer of 2007, and go up form their.
Price increase due to extra steps to get the diesel to be "low sulfur".....

GroovieGhoulie · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:01:50 PM »

Quote from: ProTeal55 on May 21, 2006, 06:32:34 PM

Price increase due to extra steps to get the diesel to be "low sulfur".....

Which is BS because Europe and the rest of the world are ALREADY getting low-sulphur diesel. Just another excuse by the oil companies to rape us.

jawshunter · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:46:00 PM »

The biodiesel is good for lubrication. In fact from what I have read on the web, a blend of 2% bio with regular ultra low sulfur petroleum based diesel provides all necessary lubrication. There apparently is a down side to the biodiesel ( there always is ) and it is an important one for engine that set idle for long periods of time or storage tanks with a slow turnover rate for the stored fuel. The fuel goes bad quickly, especially if it is animal verses vegetable based. I've been told that the US military will not use biodiesel of any blend due to this issue and where I work we do not allow it in our emergency diesels or or fire engines. If you use it up fast it should not be an issue except for all the critters chasing you down the road because you smell like fried chicken.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2006, 12:18:31 AM »

HAHAHAHA, you americans and your cheap fuel didn't know that in old Europe diesel have been used for decades. My Audi A4 is a turbo diesel, reach 120 mph and have a better efficiency than my CB750.

The problem with bio diesel is the amount of land needed to produce a decent quantity. Regarding the pollution, it's no issue as the carbon dioxide generated is compensated with the carbon dioxide consumed by the plants when growing. That could be a future for developing countries....

A diesel bike is good from the point of view of economy, but don't expect acceleration from it. It makes no sense in our developed world, where the motorcycle has become a leisure vehicle, a commodity, and not a basic means of transportation. And using it for commuting is no excuse, as chances are that the people who commute by bike can choose between car or bike. I mean when the bike is the only mean of transportation for a whole family, like in Asia.

The good thing about diesel engines is that it doesn't take too much for them to run on almost anything, including used oil from the kitchen. Naturally, you don't want to use olive oil, that is about 16 euros a gallon lately...

Raul

GroovieGhoulie · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2006, 02:45:21 AM »

Raul, I like you, but EFF you and your eurocentric crap!

I'm all about one being proud of where they are from, but that's over the line...

Why don't you guys just finally admit that you HATE America?

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2006, 02:50:51 AM »

Quote from: GroovieGhoulie on May 22, 2006, 02:45:21 AM

Raul, I like you, but EFF you and your eurocentric crap!

I'm all about one being proud of where they are from, but that's over the line...

Why don't you guys just finally admit that you HATE America?

What are you talking about mate? Why should I hate America? She did nothing wrong with me...

By the way, what does "EFF" mean? (By the tone of your response I guess nothing nice to hear or read... ;-)

Raul

P.S. I wish the fuel price over here was the same than in the US...

bill440cars · « **Reply #20 on:** May 22, 2006, 05:19:47 AM »

Raul, after being in Japan, back in 68-70', I can emphasize with the other countries on the
price of petroleum products. I think gas, in Japan at that time, was about 60-70 cents a gallon. It
was about half that much here, or less at that time. Whenever I get "gas price shock", I think
about you guys outside the U.S. and I feel for you all. Take care, I'll catch you later, Bill

Glenn Stauffer · « **Reply #21 on:** May 22, 2006, 05:31:42 AM »

Quote from: 74cb750 on May 21, 2006, 05:08:51 PM

Glenn,
I read about this bike about a year ago. Someone in California was going to import
them in 2006.

Main problem is obtaining the hydrogen, which currently has a greater cost than gasoline
to produce and contain.
peace,
michel

There is also this from another article on this bike:

"To overcome this hurdle, Intelligent Energy is currently developing devices called reformers that extract hydrogen from biodiesel fuels (typically made from vegetable oils or animal fats) and ethanol (generally made from grain or corn). The units would sell for around U.S. $1,500 and could produce enough hydrogen to fill up the ENV for about 25 cents per tank, Eggleston said."

The company's website gives a launch date of 2007.

Also saw this little news item: "LOS ANGELES - In what at first blush seems like an unlikely arrangement, a California maker of nautical apparel that has fallen on hard times, Dickie Walker Marine, Inc., Oceanside, CA is acquiring a British fuel cell technology developer, Intelligent Energy, designer of the ENV, a funkily futuristic fuel cell bike."

This could well end up one of those much-publicised non-events.

79TBird · « **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:41:00 AM »

royal enfield 325D
this is the only pic/info i have ever seen
http://www.indiabikes.com/Current%20Stock%20Bikes/Images/99-Diesel.jpg

GroovieGhoulie · « **Reply #23 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:56:40 AM »

Quote from: Raul CB750K1 on May 22, 2006, 02:50:51 AM

Quote from: GroovieGhoulie on May 22, 2006, 02:45:21 AM
Raul, I like you, but EFF you and your eurocentric crap!

I'm all about one being proud of where they are from, but that's over the line...

Why don't you guys just finally admit that you HATE America?

What are you talking about mate? Why should I hate America? She did nothing wrong with me...

By the way, what does "EFF" mean? (By the tone of your response I guess nothing nice to hear or read... ;-)

Raul

P.S. I wish the fuel price over here was the same than in the US...

I'm not quite sure where I was coming from on that one because I posted that last night after having been out with my mates at the bar. Suffice to say, I was QUITE out of my mind while posting last night. Kids, if you are watching, do NOT drink and post!! Bad things happen.

Many apologies Raul. I tend to get sensitive when wasted.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2006, 01:56:03 AM »

No problem dude!!!

Raul

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Author Topic: Diesel Motorcycles (Read 3628 times)

ElCheapo

jawshunter

79TBird