Topic: Sorcerer and Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe to be restored

[scottly]

No buttons....the oil ring is in the wrist pin hole....they moved it up for the stroker. F'ing pistons SUCK to install.

I hope you're using 1 piece oil rings; 3 piece need more support, like buttons with a ring groove.

[PeWe]

Really suck to install.

x 3, right? (12 pistons)

[blacksmith1]

wow,Russ Collins was a bloke i respected greatly,still have the cycle guide mag from the 70's when i had my near new k2,awesome machine

[NitroHunter]

No buttons for the pistons as the pin hole has been moved up into the oil ring groove to accommodate the stroked cranks.

Mike just curious, if you cut buttons to match the ring groove are they so small it would rock and pinch the rings?

[MRieck]

No buttons for the pistons as the pin hole has been moved up into the oil ring groove to accommodate the stroked cranks.

Mike just curious, if you cut buttons to match the ring groove are they so small it would rock and pinch the rings?

Rob....the pistons use c clips. They are Venolia's from back in the day. 2mm iron top ring.....even the guy at Total Seal couldn't believe it.

[scottly]

What about the oil ring, Mike? Regardless of the type, there will be a potential leak past the ring in the open pin area.

[MRieck]

What about the oil ring, Mike? Regardless of the type, there will be a potential leak past the ring in the open pin area.

I didn't rebuild the heads or work the cylinders. I received 3 sets of Total Seal rings with the pistons. The oil ring is 2.5mm 3 piece. Top ring 2mm, 2nd 1.5mm. I can get the thick rings to aid in maximum sealing/ heat transfer from the piston (using nitromethane).
 I am not concerned about some oil getting past the open pin area...that thick scraper ring will pick it up and these aren't touring engines. The amount of unsupported oil ring is not very much and with the thickness being 2.5 mm it is still pretty stiff with the large expander sandwiched between the rails. Being in the very top of the wrist pin there isn't much piston thrust working on that area.
 Believe me....there are lots of compromises with these engines. I did the best I could solving the backing plate/oil leakage problem (which was a real BIG problem) with permanently attached CNC'd 1/2" aluminum plates on "new cases". The cases are far more robust and you won't have to RTV a red shop cloth INSIDE the back of the engine. And yes....that did happen. There are lots of other things too which have had me pulling my hair out at times. Home stretch now with just bolting on the heads on #2 and #3 and timing the cams. Waiting for #1 crank to return to me.
 

[bwaller]

While at Mike's, he ran through some of the obstacles he's faced with these and it's not a job for the faint of heart!

I must say the ingenuity involved designing the rear cover plates to seal those cases is impressive.

[scottly]

The amount of unsupported oil ring is not very much and with the thickness being 2.5 mm it is still pretty stiff with the large expander sandwiched between the rails. Being in the very top of the wrist pin there isn't much piston thrust working on that area.

Somehow I had envisioned the oil rings across the center of the pins, not at the top.

[MRieck]

The amount of unsupported oil ring is not very much and with the thickness being 2.5 mm it is still pretty stiff with the large expander sandwiched between the rails. Being in the very top of the wrist pin there isn't much piston thrust working on that area.

Somehow I had envisioned the oil rings across the center of the pins, not at the top.

That would be quite a difference in stroke BUT with this stuff anything is believable!

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Hell yes, that RC cylinder with no champher,  I made up new 4 letter words and then some! Really F'in Frustrating! You nailing it bro, knew you would,  told Jr. that a long time ago in Valdosta.....so glad you two teamed up and he got to meet our secret weapon Keith  , lol. Been a fun ride, all Sam Green's fault! LMAO,  Good luck Mike, builder of the year!

[MRieck]

Hell yes, that RC cylinder with no champher,  I made up new 4 letter words and then some! Really F'in Frustrating! You nailing it bro, knew you would,  told Jr. that a long time ago in Valdosta.....so glad you two teamed up and he got to meet our secret weapon Keith  , lol. Been a fun ride, all Sam Green's fault! LMAO,  Good luck Mike, builder of the year!

Thanks Bill. The #1 crank left Marine Crankshaft
yesterday. Cleaned out Kenny's stock of hardwelded rocker arms....the 1 set that arrived with the parts were beat and the other 2 sets MIA.

[Sam Green Racing]

Somehow I'ts always my fault, hahahaha.
But hey Mike, you got one hell of a good write up on Facebook today from Junior.

Russell W Collins Jr
11 hrs
Mike Rieck is up to cam timing on the Triple...beautiful work, impeccable machining and finishes. Picked the right guy for this! The last crankshaft is on its way back to him for assembly on the last of the three engines. Folks...this is " game on" for the next and final phase of this incredibly complex task.

[kap384@telus.net]

Somehow I'ts always my fault, hahahaha.
But hey Mike, you got one hell of a good write up on Facebook today from Junior.

Russell W Collins Jr
11 hrs
Mike Rieck is up to cam timing on the Triple...beautiful work, impeccable machining and finishes. Picked the right guy for this! The last crankshaft is on its way back to him for assembly on the last of the three engines. Folks...this is " game on" for the next and final phase of this incredibly complex task.

Awesome news!

[Sam Green Racing]

Well guys, it seems like the motors for the AT&SF are complete and are now somewhere at a secret location in Georgia, well done
 Mike.

[gschuld]

Nice going Mike👍  I know you put a PILE of time reinventing the wheel to make these truly worthy of the original NHRA best engineered award it received😉

George

[bwaller]

Mehh, not bad.      

[madmtnmotors]

Rock on!

[dragracer]

Well guys, it seems like the motors for the AT&SF are complete and are now somewhere at a secret location in Georgia, well done
 Mike.

Hmmm, in Georgia you say? Only  3 possible places down there I could imagine those engines showing up. Star Racinh with George Bryce ( but he's Harley only now), Cooper Performance(but he doesn't do chassis work), and finally there's Timblin Chassis. So i'll take Timblin Chassis as my choice. Lol

[andy750]

Outstanding Mike! Love the crate
cheers
Andy

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Beautiful. But Frank, there is one other place......

[gschuld]

Beautiful. But Frank, there is one other place......

You figured it out Jerry.  Billy is right now trying to figure how to shoehorn that triple package into Cobra Girl👊

🤣
George

[MRieck]

Nice going Mike👍  I know you put a PILE of time reinventing the wheel to make these truly worthy of the original NHRA best engineered award it received😉

George

Thank you George. It did take a lot of time to re-engineer those engines. Eventually I figured I had to start from scratch in regard to the cases. Other parts needed a lot of attention.

[y2kc0wb0y]

I've said it before on this thread but given the amount of restoration this has required, the OG bike(s) truly deserve to be in motorcycle engineering hall of fame. The time frame the original bike(s) were built under show pure genius at every level of the sport.

[gschuld]

True, and unfortunately the need(strong desire) to design and build such a complicated bike in such a short time frame didn’t allow for anything resembling an ideal R&D process.  This bike was considered as a short lived promotional/bragging rights, dominating, chic magnet monster.  Technology was moving rapidly back then.  As a result, the time needed to really custom engineer many of the parts was just not available.

For example, Mike’s work to finally build proper engine cases with CNC machined rear block off plates(all 3 engines were crank on up assemblies, no trans, clutch, shifter, etc) is a work of art in itself.  The original method was a bit more....simplistic😉