Topic: Sorcerer and Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe to be restored

[RP]

Nope, first time!   

The sad part about this project is the tooling designed and machined ( BIG $ $ $ ) to get this right will probably never be used again.     

I MIGHT be a bit ANAL/OCD as brother Mike reminded me recently that he was absolutely positive that Russ, Byron, and company went about the originals just as meticulously - sure thing! 

I doubt Russ and Byron did any serious machine work on the hubs and brake discs,  they were most likely sourced from Kosman, or some other wheel specialist back then, like the components on the bike in the photos from the first test run most likely were.   

[kmb69]

I doubt Russ and Byron did any serious machine work on the hubs and brake discs,  they were most likely sourced from Kosman, or some other wheel specialist back then, like the components on the bike in the photos from the first test run most likely were.   

Ralph, I bet you are 100% correct on that. Did not occur to me but, that was part of the business Kosman and such were in, they were tooled up, and did it every day.

[gschuld]

RC was extensively using custom Kosman stuff since at least the 3 RC in house built double engine dragsters they built in late 1972 through early 1973.  Multiple mentions in 1973 articles I have.  Same for the triple built soon after I'm sure.

I could look for documentation if it matters.

George

[754]

I was wondering about the 6 bolt pattern, a lot of drag hubs are 8 bolt , but the 6 bolt are probably bigger bolts.?

[kmb69]

I was wondering about the 6 bolt pattern, a lot of drag hubs are 8 bolt , but the 6 bolt are probably bigger bolts.?

The original pattern was 8 - 5/16" holes on a 3" bolt circle.
They are 12mm, shouldered, grade 12.9 studs, on a 4.5" bolt circle going in the sprocket side. Should be good. I hope it's good. 
Room to add 6 more on that 4.5" BC if necessary. 

[kmb69]

Frank, don't make me be second guessing myself!     
The picture below is Hawaya Racing's current offering for their Top Fuel Harleys running 12", maybe even 14" wide slicks.
I think Russ' tire is 8" or 9" wide.

[Old Scrambler]

'shouldered' is good..............if the sprocket is riding on threads...........NO GOOD

[scottly]

They are 12mm, shouldered, grade 12.9 studs, on a 4.5" bolt circle going in the sprocket side. Should be good. I hope it's good. 
Room to add 6 more on that 4.5" BC if necessary. 

IIRC, big-block Mopars used a 5 on 4.5" BC? The BC should be OK. How deep are the studs threaded into the hub? Should be at least 24mm, preferably more.

[dusterdude]

You remember correctly

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[kmb69]

IIRC, big-block Mopars used a 5 on 4.5" BC? The BC should be OK. How deep are the studs threaded into the hub? Should be at least 24mm, preferably more.

The sprocket studs are M12x1.25 on both ends like Honda. There is a .500" (12.7mm) close fit counterbore for the shoulder and 1.05" (26.7mm) thread below that. Should be good - no?
The shoulder on the stud extends out the full .375" width of the sprocket. Uses a lock washer and nut on top so the threads in the hub don't get worn out.
I planned to put blue Loctitite on the studs in the hub at final assembly. It should secure them pretty good and not destroy the hub threads like red if removal is necessary.
The studs for the disc are designed similarly, shouldered, and are overkill at M10x1.25 on a 2.75" BC. All of the studs, sprocket, disc, and wheel are high strength Unbrako.
The wheel studs are 9/16"-18 on a 4.75", Chevy, bolt pattern. They are not shouldered since the wheel centers on the hub and the lug nuts. They do bottom out in the hub.

Scottly are you an Engineer?

[gschuld]

Happy Easter Russ.

George

[kmb69]

Both the Vantine and Sparta Top Fuel bikes use 6 stud/bolt sprocket hubs.

[kmb69]

IMG_0795sm.jpg - The wheel had to be "reverse" mounted.

Was first mounted "frontards", the cast face skimmed to be parallel with the "backards". Then new lug bolt holes were machined from the back side 36 degrees out.

IMG_0510sm.jpg - Sammy in one of his favorite situations!

[754]

I dont think the 6 stud is weak as long as the studs are at least 3/8.
In the beginning of this, they were trying to be close to original, but when the old style discs prooved hard to find, theiy. Decided to use other parts..
 The triple went thru several versions anyway, this is I think is version 4..

[kmb69]

I dont think the 6 stud is weak as long as the studs are at least 3/8.
In the beginning of this, they were trying to be close to original, but when the old style discs prooved hard to find, theiy. Decided to use other parts..
 The triple went thru several versions anyway, this is I think is version 4..

Yes, we could not find good enough pictures of the last version to replicate.
So we be improvising as best we know how. The studs are 12mm, so they are 26% bigger than 3/8".

[Old Scrambler]

Sammy...........the 'shouldered' stud-muffin

[Medyo Bastos]

a maddafawkn P I M P!


...Save a tree, eat a beaver...

[slikwilli420]

Happy Easter Russ.

George

The left handlebar soars to have a hydraulic master cylinder. Is there a honda that had a hydraulic clutch that used a master cylinder that matched the brake unit?

[dusterdude]

Some old farts have all the fun

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[gschuld]

My apologies if this has already been posted, I can't remember all 111 pages...

But it's good stuff...

George

[gschuld]

More

[gschuld]

Last one.

[gschuld]

Nice ad.

George

[Retro Rocket]

Nice ad.

George

I want that last one on a shirt....

[gschuld]

That could be done....but it would need an OK from Russ Jr.

George