Topic: Remove engine to weld frame?

[kyre]

I have to weld a side kick stand mount on my frame since a) the PO cut it off well before I bought the bike and b) I need to remove the center stand so my new exhaust fits.

Should I remove the engine to do this? Can I get away with covering the engine and putting the ground right next to the area being welded? I've just heard stories of bearings being fused together.

[crazypj]

Remove battery and you should be fine.
Reg/rect is more likely to be damaged if anything went wrong
There is no reason anything should happen to engine, unless you removed engine bolts and connected ground lead to motor

[Lumbee]

You will certainly make it easier on your self (at least the welding part) if you remove the engine. This will allow you to position the frame to your liking to get the best possible welds. However, its not necessary. As long as you can get the angles you need for welding then you are OK. You can throw an old towel or something between the weld area and the engine if you like. Just watch out for sparks and stuff going up in flames.

[Vreihenmotor6]

hey, what are you doing for your new side stand mount? the previous owner of mine broke mine and I'd love to have one again?

[kyre]

Thanks guys.

As for the kick stand mount I bought this http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1514

Really good quality. For triumph 1" frame but fits perfect on my cb.

[david451]

I have to weld a side kick stand mount on my frame since a) the PO cut it off well before I bought the bike and b) I need to remove the center stand so my new exhaust fits.

Should I remove the engine to do this? Can I get away with covering the engine and putting the ground right next to the area being welded? I've just heard stories of bearings being fused together.

Take your fuel tank off, place it well away from the welding area preferably outside, disconect the battery and remove it and same again. All areas where sparks will strike will be damaged so you need to cover all up with wet rags. I would pull the plugs off the charging bits just in case you spike them.

Get the bike where you want it, on a jack and blocks and then after cleaning the area with a grinder spot it in place, roll the bike over onto a couple of old tyres and finish the job off. Do a bit at a time so you don't buckle the frame with the heat.

Something with good penetration is what you need for this job.

[Don R]

David got it right, although penetration is easy because the tubing is thin. Stick welding is probably not an option unless you have a very small rod and are good at it. I just tig welded a new section where mine was. Hopefully there is a gusset plate left from the old one to give additional thickness.
 On race cars we remove all the ground wires to ignition and electrical, like you said ground close to the weld site.
 I borrowed an old engine case to maintain alignment of the mounts but I welded in a replacement section yours should not move around much. 

[mrjack55]

I'm going to say it, but I already know what's going to happen. 

Any welding involving the frame *should* be TIG welded. 

[stinkfinger]

Like others have said,
lil at at time, to let cool,  close groundclamp(on frame) and use wet rags on motor to prevent heat/burns
I see no reason a good stick-weld job wldnt work(if you can get to everything)
Stick-welders built this country.

Tony

[kyre]

I only have a MIG welder...

[Don R]

Mig is great, give it heck. didn't mean to start a weld thread, I was just sharing my experience. He11, they built airplanes with a gas torch until a few years ago.

[Vreihenmotor6]

Thanks guys.

As for the kick stand mount I bought this http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1514

Really good quality. For triumph 1" frame but fits perfect on my cb.

thats great, now, does it fit a factory kickstand? I don't even have one to measure

[lucky]

DAVID 451 covered many safety considerations all very well.

You can use MIG,TIG, or Stick welding as long as it is a good job.
They used to weld tubular aircraft frames together with 1/16 electrodes.
Mostly all women welders. You could use 1/16 6013 electrode.

Matter of fact the CB750 was originally stick welded.
MIG was not around yet.

I am a certified welder and a certified welding inspector.
When you weld the kick stand weldment on the frame do NOT make any transverse welds on the frame.
Only weld the longitudnnal edges top and bottom.  Do not weld the ends!
Disconnect the battery and remove the gas tank.

Make sure you have a good clean ground - or a cable will light up cherry red.
Don't ask me how you will weld that bottom weld. Probably lean the bike all the way over on the ground to get to that bottom weld. That might require draining the oil. But it is easier than taking the engine out and putting it all back together.
It better be good job though. And do not grind the welds.
Make sure you are in a good position to weld.

If you are using a 110V MIG welder turn it all the way up.
You will need about 80-90 amps output.

The area to be welded must be clean shinny metal. You cannot weld through the paint and grease.

Tack weld the weldment onto the frame first, and put those tacks on the long edges (top and bottom) NOT on the ends.
OF coarse the motorcycle and kick stand will have to be in the correct position before making those tack welds.

A Honda CB750 frame is about 1/6 thickness.

[kyre]

Thanks for the extensive info Lucky! Will definitely help. BTW, why only longitudinal welds? just curious.

Vreihenmotor6, I have no idea if the factory kickstand will fit as I don't have one either. I'll probably just adapt a triumph kickstand as a friend has a bunch and he's willing to give me one.

Does anybody know the inside width of the stock kickstand where it mounts to the frame? The mount I got for a triumph is .5" and beefy

[Vreihenmotor6]

 quick trip to the garage yielded a 1/4" thickness for whats left of my stock kickstand mount

a quick test of my 2001 triumph tt600 (which i'm parting out by the way) yielded a 1/2" thick kickstand mount dimension so maybe I'll keep that kickstand and use it on my cb750

[crazypj]

If you weld ends it creates stress areas at weld, in effect you would have 3 short tubes instead of one long one (oversimplified but you should get the idea)

[stinkfinger]

If you weld ends it creates stress areas at weld, in effect you would have 3 short tubes instead of one long one (oversimplified but you should get the idea)

Could you elaborate a little on that?
Not doubting you, just not sure if I'm understanding you.

Thanx
Tony

[Psychonaut]

I had to cut the bracket off mine and weld it back on straight. CB400f have kickstand problems and bend the frames at the mount.  Engine in, battery in and connected. I've welded on cars and trucks with EFI 100's of times. Never had one problem.  I would only tig if ti were cromoly.

[Don R]

Like I said, I didn't mean to start a weld thread, when I said I didn't mean to start a weld thread. You probably won't hurt anything electrical but it's not so hard to be sure by unhooking a few things. Lots of good advise here, good luck.

[Stev-o]

But it is a weld thread!

[Don R]

It was a remove engine and where to ground thread. Or was it?