Author Topic: 550/61mm pistons?  (Read 13113 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
550/61mm pistons?
« on: December 13, 2011, 11:08:45 PM »
anyone know of this brand or any info?these are 61mm pistons from an overbored 550,,giving about 590 cc,
            this logo is bk in a complete circle

           this logo is the letter s inside a larger c

the sleeves still have a good usable amount of ramp on them,the head gasket also was 61mm,clicking the pictures will zoom them.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 11:21:01 PM by dave500 »

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 11:21:25 PM »
Is that from the new engine Dave.? Whats the cam like.?
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 11:44:27 PM »
cam/rockers and cover are all good mick,although its not the locked shaft type,i threw both internal chains straight in the bin,it had been apart and put back together less the rings for like storage?,(a few bits of which i found in the bottom end),the head looks good but i havent dissembled it yet,the bores look good with no scores or grenade damage but im still yet to size them up properly,the gears/forks and shift drum are truly great,it has the later clutch with the one odd ball funny double plate steel disc,good clean starter that spins up well and the alternator and field are both good,who ever assembled it got gasket goo all through the oil pump,a couple of main journals have goo on them,,i always pull old motors apart but was told it only needs rings,it was stiff to turn,,be wary of freeing up stuck engines and calling them good goers,,you can be lucky and just as unlucky and cause unnecessary further damage,now this ones been apart itll be ok,get all the #$%* out of it,ill shelve the transmission as a spare. 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 11:47:54 PM by dave500 »

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 11:47:28 PM »
61mm bore and 650 cam ..... ;D    Tick, tick, tick.........Thats you thinking.....can here it from here.... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 11:52:17 PM »
yeah but not for a while,itll need piston sets,i want to make a "test rig"bike so i dont have to swap engines in my bike every time i want to check how a gearbox shifts etc,just for up and down the street usage,im a bit over swapping engines in a perfectly running bike to test a smoker just to see how the gearbox runs!

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 12:00:22 AM »
So what you are saying is, you need another rolling frame..... ;D
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 12:03:33 AM »
umm?i spose,with a nice paint job and shocks,good chrome and tyres,it never stops.

Offline classic bike tuner

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • http://www.cmrch.nl/
    • cmrch.nl/
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 04:32:07 AM »
anyone know of this brand or any info?these are 61mm pistons from an overbored 550,,giving about 590 cc,
            this logo is bk in a complete circle

           this logo is the letter s inside a larger c

the sleeves still have a good usable amount of ramp on them,the head gasket also was 61mm,clicking the pictures will zoom them.

this looks like stock 750 pistons
is there samware a 300 mark on it
is the top flat or a little dome on it

gerrit

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 11:38:10 AM »
the top is flat,both valve eyebrows are the same and they have no forward mark on them,they dont have "art"anywhere on them i think they are a cheap aftermarket brand?

Offline FuZZie

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,222
  • If I is expert, I can has cheezburger?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 01:52:46 PM »
a search of BK brings up this:
http://www.bkperformance.com.au/

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 08:21:29 PM »
thanks fuzzie,,ive bought stuff from him before hes close by me,hes an old speedway racer.
heres the top.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 08:46:30 PM by dave500 »

Offline Frostyboy

  • Retired: Never was an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • Circa 1951
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 01:57:04 AM »
This has nothing to do with your pistons Dave, but I bought my first bike off Bert Kingston (BK) in 1970 when he had a Yamaha dealership at West End. Was a C180SE. Flat out in 5th was 8,000 at 80mph.  8)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 03:17:48 AM by Frostyboy »
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
We haven't met yet.
[CB550F1]

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 11:18:46 AM »
hes been in the game a long time owen.

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,393
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 05:39:55 PM »
You sure it is not just an old "605"cc kit from a cb500? Did all of those Art kits have art marked pistons?

The rings were junk on the cheap 605 kits but as long as the liners are properly fit, then a good stock 750 piston with a a little work makes a nice Gentleman's Express start point for the motor. The stock 550 liners can be bored to 61mm.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 09:54:21 PM »
yeah this is a 550 barrel rafster,ive seen art on the stock pistons,i work out 591.5 with a 61 bore,what was the 605 bore?

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,393
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 10:59:55 PM »
I couldn't recall the cheap "605" kits showing up on ebay... Henry Abe kits...
They aren't 605cc even for a CB500 or a CB550 as they were 61mm at the bottom skirt and 60.5 at top if I recall correctly. They come with cheap 61mm pistons that have a poor oil ring design (1 piece that's prone to break), rings, sleeves/liners for the CB500 application (as the 500 can't be bored to 61mm safely), and gaskets. They come to a 592cc, so it is a misnomer or the like...
Their piston design has a narrow oil ring groove that is difficult to find rings for if you are reusing them, and a good 3 piece wider Honda oil ring is much preferred. The rings are known to eat themselves trashing/grenading a good motor. The torque and power is nice and coupled with a CB650 ('79-'81) SOHC camshaft makes a nice improvements on a nimble handling CB500 or CB550.
If they are the Henry Abe pistons, the machine work on the pistons to accept a stock CB750 std ring may not be worth it. Some of the Henry Abe kits have holed a piston...another nasty engine failure...not always from the piston design as a poor build.

Even the 750 pistons require some mods to work with the CB550 if I recall correctly and starting with a 750 good set of std pistons is a nice way to start a Gentleman's Express with added quench band and valve pockets for the CB550 design.  The skirts are long on the Henry Abe pistons and they are marked with a HAINDST most of the time...


Here's something bwaller posted about widening the oil ring groove:
"Sorry I missed this ct. It's safe to say the rings that come with this kit are just plain junk, there have been several bad news stories.

I had an early standard size 61mm CB750 piston to compare with the Henry Abe and the top two compression ring grooves are the same, but the oil ring groove on the HA piston was narrower than the 750 item. Find a shop to widen the oil ring groove on those Abe pistons (I believe it was 0.011", and was removed from the bottom land) and you can use the excellent quality Honda rings. Just check end gaps before you assemble (although I didn't have to adjust gaps at all)."

One person reported that their pistons had "HAINDST" on the inside skirt and 600cc.
The Henry Abe pistons also feature a "They have a 23.5mm pin height, vs the 23mm for the stock 550/650 pistons"

Mohan wrote in one thread: "I believe if you read through this thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=53682.0 and look at Terry's replies 18, 25, 28, and 37 he gives details and specs for Henry Abe 592 kit pistons..."

Jerry Rxman Griffins wrote concerning the Henry Abe kits (they also did a 900 kit for 750s) and gaskets sources... "Yeah, Cometic is the way to go. Tell them you have a 900 kit in your 750 SOHC Honda. Get the base gasket while you're at it. My Henry Abe kit has tapered sleeves at the bottom ends and will fit on a stock case that hasn't been machined and should use a stock base gasket. Yours might not. The base gasket will probably depend on which sleeves you have. Talk to them about this too.  "

bistromath wrote: "If this is the Henry Abe kit, I can't advise you strongly enough not to use the rings that came with the kit. Everyone on this board that's used those rings has come up with compression leaks, and there are reports of grenading engines due to the lousy 1-piece oil control ring. The remedy is to use standard CB750 rings with the 3-piece oil ring. To make it fit you have to enlarge the oil ring groove by 0.011" on a lathe."

The 750 "300" ring set is the preferred replacement with work on the H.A. pistons to enlarge the oil control ring groove and use a properly sized set of 750 "300" rings.

So, if you had a 1 piece oil ring on some of your pistons (think you said there were parts in the pan...) then they are probably Henry Abe pistons which may have been sold by ART or Henry Abe sold ART piston sets...not really clear who sold which...

Sounds like you might be lucky and this isn't a Henry Abe kit afterall but it does have ring issues if there were bits in the pan...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline faux fiddy

  • Just becaus I'm the second post on the pissed off thread doesn't mean I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • bike in a box
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2011, 11:24:51 PM »
Sorry, but here in 'merica anyone would ask what with the  id BK?  This is something our countries might have in common.

, BUT Here in 'merica it's gotta be "R" or "D."

Iffi'n,  and as it apperars you might have either, on closer inspection,  in your own hand, (even though cleverly disguised as "BK")  you should deep six them as quick as possible.

What are you a terrist?
^^^^^^^/l^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/l^^^
. . ______/ l_________________/  l
<'  '  '   '  o .  . . . . . . .................(
 ' VVVVV'   ')))))____>-''''''''''''''''''\  l
' . vvvv_   -              -                 \/

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 12:06:09 AM »
good info rafster thanks,,yeah this engine was put back together without rings for storage i guess,i found traces of ring in the lower end,some of which being the famous one piece oil rings,i wont use them ever,and im still "figrin out"fiddys post.

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,393
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2011, 12:42:38 AM »
Hopefully fiddy had not gotten into lucky's stash of brew...
I didn't understand that post of his either...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,022
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: 550/61mm pistons?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 01:59:39 AM »
yeah i wont ever use the one peice oil rings,im still yet to measure this bore and check taper/ovality,the pistons dont look worn but seem sloppy in the bore,might be a dud overbore thats too oversize?im thinking these are cheap pistons?