Topic: Tricks/Tips for installing pistons into barrels (Wiseco 836)??

[odin836]

Have just fitted the pistons and ready to start sliding them into the bored/honed barrels...

Any tricks for this?  One or two person job?

Also, I could not find any specific marking on the piston rings to specify a particular side up, so I assume for the 836 kit there is no particular taper to the rings...

Thanks for your advice!

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Mate, all the rings (apart from the oil control rings) should be marked, in bloody tiny letters/numerals close to the ring gaps. The chrome rings (shiny or ligher colour) go on top with the markings facing up, the duller coloured compression rings go next with the markings up (get a magnifying glass) and then the 3 piece oil control rings.

It's easier (but not easy) with 2 people, I've tried hose clamps as ring compressors with limited success, a small flat tipped screwdriver and long fingernails are both handy. try inserting the inner pistons first, don't forget your cam chain tensioner blades, and have fun! (but I bet you won't, it's a #$%* of a job) Cheers, Terry,

[Rigid]

I use thin aluminum sheet wrapped around each piston with a nylon tye wrap to compress the rings.  Slide all four at once and then reach into the small gap remaining to cut the tye wraps and retrieve the metal bands.  The bear is the stock bevel at the bottom has been machined away with the overbore. 

[mick7504]

I've just installed a set of 836 JE pistons on Thurs night and used hose clamps.
No 2&3 went in first and then No 1&4 last of all.

It is a fiddly job working between the studs but patience is the trick and definately do not use any force.

The base of the sleeves should have been chamfered after they were bored to give the rings a lead in.
If they haven't, you'll have a fight on your hands trying to get the rings in and also run the risk of breakage.

Another way is to install the pistons in the bores first and then fit 2/3 pins & clips followed by 1/4.
If you do it this way, fit the inside facing circlips first before installing the pistons.

A couple of small blocks under the pistons to keep them square also helps.

It can be a #$%* of a job as Terry said, but walk away and come back to it if you notice the old jugular vein starting to pump more than normal. 

Mick

[MRieck]

I've just installed a set of 836 JE pistons on Thurs night and used hose clamps.
No 2&3 went in first and then No 1&4 last of all.

It is a fiddly job working between the studs but patience is the trick and definately do not use any force.

The base of the sleeves should have been chamfered after they were bored to give the rings a lead in.
If they haven't, you'll have a fight on your hands trying to get the rings in and also run the risk of breakage.

Another way is to install the pistons in the bores first and then fit 2/3 pins & clips followed by 1/4.
If you do it this way, fit the inside facing circlips first before installing the pistons.

A couple of small blocks under the pistons to keep them square also helps.

It can be a #$%* of a job as Terry said, but walk away and come back to it if you notice the old jugular vein starting to pump more than normal. 

Mick

This part is key to an easy installation.

[odin836]

Cheers for the insight. I had already put the rings on with the numbers facing up although the markings on the instructions indicate a circle represents the top side of each ring, rings are in specified order as per Terry's response, even have the arrow on top of the piston facing forward (exhaust)...


Small blocks - good idea!
Still, I can see I'll be doing a lot of cursing tomorrow!!!

[mycb750k6]

The last time I helped a friend i used hose clamps (2-3 then 1-4). With the old style one piece oil ring you can do it yourself. When i helped my friend, he had the more common three piece ring so a single hose clamp would not work as that little squiggly ring wants to bulge out at the hose clamp bolt. So i cut the bolt off another set of hose clamps and put them on and then the first set of hose clamps on top of those so the gaps in the clamps are 180 degree apart and the rings were completely covered. That way there's no bulge. Nevertheless its a two person job. Unfortunately the hose clamps just barely cover all three rings so it's a lot of trouble. Remember the cylinders should push the clamps down as it slides over the pistons so they need to be tight but not that tight. If you tap it with a rubber mallet and it won't go you probably have one of the three piece rings bulging. Time to start over. And don't forget the three rings gaps should separated by the mfg specified angle (60 degree?) There's a YouTube video on it but the guy makes it look way too easy.

[City Boy]

Hi gang.After years of fidgiting with screwdrivers and fingers a la Terry,and using the factory piston supports,I tried a different tact on my latest build,a 900F.I fitted the pistons and rods individually first into the barrel and then mated the assembly to the upper case and crankshaft.Still a little tedious but much less fear of ring breakage.On balance I found this to be a better method.     Merry Christmas and Rock On

[Gonzowerke]

When rebuilding my F2 with Wiseco 836 kit, I used only hose clamps and nothing else, and found it to be quite easy. brush the pistons with fresh motor oil, then put hose clamps on the pistons that are wide enough to cover your rings. Now tighten the clamps just enough so they are tight against the piston, but you can move them with your hand, with just a little resistance to moving. This will allow the clamps to slide down as you install them in the block, leaving the rings compressed by the block. Put 2 and 3 at TDC and slide your block over the studs, and with one hand, introduce the pistons to the bores. Now slide the block down, holding it as level as you can, until the clamps are past the rings and 1 and 4 are touching the block. At this point, you can release the block and use both hands to insert 1 and 4. continue sliding the block down until the rings on 1 and 4 are in the block, at this point the clamps on 2 and 3 should have dropped off those pistons. remove all clamps, and seat the block, and you are done.

The PO of the F had done the old frame mod for removing the upper end with the engine still in the frame, so i just put it in 1st to keep the crank from turning while doing this. When I replaced the base gasket on my K, I put a short piece of garden hose over the countershaft and gently clamped vice grips on it to rest against the block and prevent turning.

Hope this helps,

Gonzo

[Terry in Australia]

Hi gang.After years of fidgiting with screwdrivers and fingers a la Terry,and using the factory piston supports,I tried a different tact on my latest build,a 900F.I fitted the pistons and rods individually first into the barrel and then mated the assembly to the upper case and crankshaft.Still a little tedious but much less fear of ring breakage.On balance I found this to be a better method.     Merry Christmas and Rock On

Hey thanks for that insight mate, I've often thought about doing it that way, but was too afraid of re-using the conrod bolts, and too tight to buy new ones. This next build (my 1060cc RC engine) will be an ideal opportunity to use your method as I'm fitting new H/D rods on the APE crank. Have a good one mate, and Merry Christmas! Cheers, Terry.

[Prospect]

Hi gang.After years of fidgiting with screwdrivers and fingers a la Terry,and using the factory piston supports,I tried a different tact on my latest build,a 900F.I fitted the pistons and rods individually first into the barrel and then mated the assembly to the upper case and crankshaft.Still a little tedious but much less fear of ring breakage.On balance I found this to be a better method.     Merry Christmas and Rock On

Was it difficult to attach it to the crankshaft after and torquing it to spec?

[nippon]

For installation, i use a folding rule to keep the block up.
Then you can go down with the block step by step.
If you want to use a wood block, wrap them with tape in order to avoid
that some shavings fall into the crankcase.
You cannot see in the pic, but as Mriek wrote, a small block under
the piston skirt keep them straigth.
I do not use clamps to press the rings together, I use the metal end
of the folding rule which you can see on the starter cover to press the pistons rings together one by one.
With the other free hand i hammer down the block with feeling using my thenar.
The rings slip in the sleeve easily. Just take your time.

Don't forget to oil the sleeves.

nippon

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Do not forget to oil the rings and ring lands in the pistons too! Rings need to freely move.

[City Boy]

Hi Prospect.I put all pistons to the top of  barrel,then slide the barrel onto the studs till it bottoms against upper crankcase.Then I put some 1/2" copper pipe on a few studs with nuts to hold the barrel in place.Next invert the upper case and install the crank.With care,push each piston/rod until it fits to crankpin and install rod cap.Keeping torque wrench as close to 90 degrees in relation to crankpin while torquing will keep  assembly from trying to turn.   Rock On

[Prospect]

Hi Prospect.I put all pistons to the top of  barrel,then slide the barrel onto the studs till it bottoms against upper crankcase.Then I put some 1/2" copper pipe on a few studs with nuts to hold the barrel in place.Next invert the upper case and install the crank.With care,push each piston/rod until it fits to crankpin and install rod cap.Keeping torque wrench as close to 90 degrees in relation to crankpin while torquing will keep  assembly from trying to turn.   Rock On

OK I think I got it.  So after you install the rod cap you have the crankshaft in the rods resting against the top case. You then place the top case and barrels down onto the bottom case and that's it???  I guess you need two people to place it back onto the bottom case?

[City Boy]

Hey Prospect.The bottom case is mated to the upper case last after all internals have been installed in upper case with the exception of the trans countershaft,shift drum,and shift forks which are installed in the lower case.I will be in Toronto next week,if you are building your engine I would be happy to drop by and explain process gratis.   Rock On

[Prospect]

Hey Prospect.The bottom case is mated to the upper case last after all internals have been installed in upper case with the exception of the trans countershaft,shift drum,and shift forks which are installed in the lower case.I will be in Toronto next week,if you are building your engine I would be happy to drop by and explain process gratis.   Rock On

Wow. Thanks for the offer.  I'm gonna play around with this method this week and I'll let you know if I need help.  Just a mock up though to see how it all could fit as my engine is going for a bore job on Friday.