Author Topic: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer  (Read 5910 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« on: May 31, 2011, 06:32:43 PM »
hi guys

my name is bryan and i have an 82 cb650sc nighthawk i plan on building into a cafe racer. this probable will take some time for me to build with work, beeing a father, having a pain in the ass girlfriend lol (but i still love her) and lack of money. it will take a wile but i will get it done. i had 2 stroke dirtbike all my life so i dont know much about 4 stroke street bikes. any help will be great  ;D


this past weekend i tried to get my bike to stay running. it will start for 2 or 3 days then the new battery will die. i changed the starter solenoid and the voltage regulator rectifier and the battery still dies. it sounds like it can be the charging system in the engine. can there be anything else that can make my battery slowly die like that?
bryan

Offline Bankerdanny

  • Eventually I will be old enough in reality to be
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,626
  • Endeavor to persevere
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 09:17:14 PM »
It drains while sitting or you are riding it and every few days it's dead?
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 09:37:22 PM »
it drains when i ride it. the last time i tested the battery with the bike running i brought the rpms up to 4 or 5 and i was getting 13 amps maybe a little less. today it started fine. i was ridding it for a wile then i turned it off. go to start it back up it slowly turned over then started up. i drove it for a wile turned it off again then it wouldn't start. before that is was starting it up all weekend but i didn't ride it much
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 10:04:39 PM by 82cb650nighthawk »
bryan

Offline Frankencake

  • Yesssssss,
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,847
  • "I like the old junk"
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 11:17:26 AM »
it drains when i ride it. the last time i tested the battery with the bike running i brought the rpms up to 4 or 5 and i was getting 13 amps maybe a little less. today it started fine. i was ridding it for a wile then i turned it off. go to start it back up it slowly turned over then started up. i drove it for a wile turned it off again then it wouldn't start. before that is was starting it up all weekend but i didn't ride it much
Ok so far we know this:  Your battery is not charging.  You should have over 13 VOLTS dc (not amps) at your battery when your engine is revved over 3500 rpm.  There are a few things that could be wrong in your bike.  The bikes that Honda sold in this era are notorious for their bad charging systems.  They changed a bunch of stuff and came up with a "new and improved" system.  They did have higher output with less weight so that was a plus but they had flaws.  You are experiencing one of several of these flaws. 

There are windings in which a magnet is spun.  These windings can go bad.  The magnet is an electro magnet which can also go bad.  They used a combinations regulator/rectifier which can go bad.  The old ones are actually serviceable but the unit you have is not.
Getting back to the engine side of your charging system.  Your are going to check a few things.  Pop the cover off of the alternator side of the motor and check the brushes that power your magnet.  Also check resistance (ohms=Ω) of your magnet.  Check between each yellow wire for equal resistance (ohms again or Ω on your multi meter)  Check for any of the yellow wires for a short to ground.  You want to find resistance values that coincide with the values your manual displays.  Here's another quick check.  Disconnect your regulator rectifier and use jumpers to send 12 volts to your magnet( the same color wires that go to the brushes  NOT THE YELLOW ONES!! NO VOLTAGE DOWN THE YELLOW WIRES).  Start the bike and use the idle screw to keep the rpms above 3500.  Set your multimeter to read AC volts.  Check BETWEEN each yellow wire coming from the alternator. Your should get equal readings.  If my memory serves me, it is about 30 volts.  If they are not equal, your stator is junk.  Search this forum for more info.  There are tons on "cb650 not charging" posts and the longer you look the more you'll find.  What I am telling you is pretty basic and there are more guys and girls with more experience with the 650.  It is a unique SOHC as it has this type of charging system. 


Your manual will have these voltage and resistance values in it.  READ YOUR MANUAL.  A good Clymer manual will walk you through it.  Good luck
"Sure, if you don't want that bike in your backyard, I guess I'll take it."  "I'll probably just scrap it......"

Frankencake:  Brotherhood of the unemployed?  What's our secret handshake?

333:  Think "Shakeweight".

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 06:47:43 PM »
thanks for that info :) i need to pick up a manual. i need to stop doing this trial and error stuff im spending money on parts i don't need. my bad i meant to say volts instead of amps. im going to pick up a manual this weekend and do some test and make my bike loss some weight. hopefully in a couple weeks ill have money to start bringing the sport out of my sport cruiser. i should have some pics.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 07:08:42 PM by 82cb650nighthawk »
bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 08:41:22 PM »
this is what i have to work with

bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 08:45:09 PM »
not bad for a free bike
bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 08:46:09 PM »
 .
bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 09:26:11 PM »
today i got a little angry. bike broke down on me trying to get it to my old mans house >:( weren't able to get a service manual this weekend. i hope next weekend ill have one. messed around with the charging system today didn't get anywhere. NEED THAT MANUAL
bryan

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 10:55:59 PM »
poking around online will yield the .pdf service manual.  I believe 'cosky' is in the file name.  There's also a '79 650 service manual floating around on the intrawebs that won't be far different from your nighthawk except for the CV carbs.

The 650s have the same charging system that 82+ CB750c, CB900s and some others did, the same basic electromagnet setup that sucks in the same ways.  I'm sure it was just fine when new, but now that it's approaching 30, it's losing some functionality. don't we all? ;D

TwoTired is really the man for methodical, logical testing to pinpoint what's going on, but until he's on the scene here, I'd like to point you toward the electrosport troubleshooting diagram.  That, in conjunction with what Mr. Cake said above should point you in the right direction.  I'm going to give some model specific direction, please don't take it as condescending when I tell you where some stuff is, because when I was new at this (ok, and still am...) people would say "Take off the alternator cover..." and I would go "Where's that?"  So... bear with me.

Start the bike and get a voltage reading at the battery at idle while it's warming up.  Write the voltage down and let us know in your next post if you can.   Once you've got it sufficiently warm, bring the rpms to 3k.  Report that voltage.  Now to 5k.  Report that voltage, too.

Now kill it and let it cool off for a bit 'til you can touch stuff again.

Take off your alternator cover (on the left side by your shifter, should have 3 or 4 metric size 8 bolts holding it on.  You'll be face to face with your rotor and brushes.  The brushes are in the cap there, with the stator.  Test the ohms of resistance between your brush and the black and white wires that plug into your regulator rectifier @ under the left side sidecover.  Should be pretty low.  Might wanna write that down and include that in the data you provide us in your next post.

Test ohms of resistance between the rotor's sliprings, then the screws or whatever raised bumps are on either side of the rotor that the windings are soldered to.  Both should be close to 5-8 ohms of resistance.  Anything less can indicate an internal short- though some folks here have had rotors that tested good and still didn't produce power right.  Someone may correct me on those numbers but I know it shouldn't be lower than 5.

If the sliprings look really worn/dirty/gross, clean them up with a scotchbrite pad and some contact cleaner.  The VAC your alternator produces depends on the kind of connection you get between the brushes and the sliprings.  For that matter, take a good look at those brushes and make sure they're not worn down past the wear marks.  Check the spring pressure and see if it's got enough oomph to make a good connection with those sliprings.  if there's a lot of crap and graphite dust in there from slipring wear, see if you can clean that out, too.

Check ohms resistance between the yellow leads.  Should be about .8 for all of them.

let us know what you get.

You're from maine, yeah?  Near the ocean much?  Make sure your grounds and connections are clean and tight, I would figure on there being a hefty amount of corrosion, seeing your pictures.  See if you can find this stuff, Green Ranger turned me on to it and the stuff works really well.   

If the problem's not at your rotor or r/r, we might have to do some gremlin chasing.  8)



« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 11:02:23 PM by Industrial Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 09:15:05 PM »
thanks for the tips. i just ordered a service manual today i should have it some time this week. ill let you all know what i fined out.

if my battery wasn't charged for the full recommended time can that be a problem? 
 
bryan

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 10:25:14 PM »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 09:49:38 AM »
thanks for that link and yes the battery being undercharged can be a problem. i had to bookmark that one
bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 10:07:02 PM »
inspiration bike
i would love my bike to look something like this bike
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 10:09:47 PM by 82cb650nighthawk »
bryan

Offline 82cb650nighthawk

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • 82 cb650sc nighthawk
Re: project 82 cb650sc cafe racer
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 07:49:32 AM »
finely got my manual in friday a week late, damn profile powersports
bryan