Author Topic: Chains  (Read 4831 times)

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Offline Bluegreen

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Chains
« on: February 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM »
I've read a ton of threads on the main board about chains for a 500 but I'd like to know what the hi-po guys are using and your thoughts on the matter. I imagine strength with the extra hp is a primary concern but also weight. I'm currently using a big x-ring chain but I want to move to a bigger sprocket on the back and my current chain won't allow this, plus I've noticed the tell tale rub marks on the crank case...

So what are you guys using?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Chains
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 03:32:44 PM »
A standard 530 chain on my 550. Don't feel the need for anything else at £19 a go.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Chains
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 03:49:02 PM »
go for a 520, the current ones are super strong and can handle 150hp +

not sure x-ring is really worth the extra $, o-rings are plenty good IMHO.

on my 90 hp Gpz750/810, not a hint of stretch after a race season on a mid price 0-ring 520.

and would like to know here you can get a 19 pound o-ring chain.... if its a non o-ring you mean by "standard", I pass ;)  an o-ring chain outlasts a non O by a factor of X5.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 03:50:44 PM »
Race chain every time. X and O ring chains sap power like nobodies business.
With these chains, you might as well drag a boat anchor behind you.
If you are prepaired to maintain them on a regular basis, proper race chains are the best you will get for the job.
Even a none O or X ring standard heavy duty chain is better if maintained properly.

Sam. ;)

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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Chains
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 03:52:52 PM »
Sorry, I didn't realise this was the racing forum.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 04:16:53 PM »
Lester, you are excused ;D ;D ;D ;D The most sucsesfull Honda that ever raced is the XL250 of the boss of Honda racing uk Neil Tuxworth.
This is the sand racing bike that has won more races than any other Honda period.
At the end of every race, he cleans the chain and puts it in a bath of deisel fuel, his chains last for years despite the salt and sand. Go figure.

Sam. ;)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 04:19:15 PM by SamCR750A »
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Offline Bluegreen

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Re: Chains
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 04:28:05 PM »

Sap power? Really? I had no idea. Any idea how much?

So it sounds like a heavy duty 520 or race 520 is the way to go. Any brands better than others? And what is the difference between a race and standard/HD chain?
Thanks for all the reply's guys!!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 04:29:40 PM by Bluegreen »

Offline dragracer

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Re: Chains
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 04:48:49 PM »
I would think some of the power robbing of an O ring chain comes from the extra weight?? Not to mention, the side plates are rubbing against those rubber o-rings cause a bit of friction- friction does rob power.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 04:54:39 PM »

Sap power? Really? I had no idea. Any idea how much?

So it sounds like a heavy duty 520 or race 520 is the way to go. Any brands better than others? And what is the difference between a race and standard/HD chain?
Thanks for all the reply's guys!!

The brand that I use in the Uk is Iwis. I use these chains on my lightweight bikes and they are not much bigger than than pedle bike chains and cope well with 45bhp.
The bike in my avatar used a standard heavy duty chain (86bhp and 62ftlb of torque) and with good maintanence lasted for several seasons racing.
When you change from O ring to a standard chain, you can feel the difference when pushing your bike.

http://www.sprocketsunlimited.com/IwisChain.html

Sam. ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 04:57:39 PM »
Yes Frank, friction is the biggest draw back.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Bluegreen

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Re: Chains
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 05:22:31 PM »
This thread was a success !!  ;)

Thanks all.

Offline bwaller

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Re: Chains
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 06:30:36 PM »
I use an EK non o-ring chain on my race bike. It's light & strong, amazingly hasn't stretched much at all, quess I need more power!

Every two outings I hang & clean it, then warm it with a heat gun and re apply lube and work it in then wipe off the excess. Great way to lube a chain and yes I know I appear to be quite anal.  ;) I just hate filth and chain lube all over the rear tire of a race bike.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Chains
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 05:20:37 AM »
"Just to put the drag argument to rest, one of our old members had a chain dyno (yeah, who thought they had such a thing), and the o-ring chain did in fact drag more... UNTIL, it got warm, after it was up to temps, it was the same or better than a non-ring chain."

 ;)



Offline bwaller

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Re: Chains
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 06:51:13 AM »
"Just to put the drag argument to rest, one of our old members had a chain dyno (yeah, who thought they had such a thing), and the o-ring chain did in fact drag more... UNTIL, it got warm, after it was up to temps, it was the same or better than a non-ring chain."

 ;)




Well there you go, good info but chain dyno?? indeed something I would not have thought existed, cool deal. Now let's put this to rest, before it leads to steering dampers, points, pods....... ;D

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Chains
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 08:37:40 AM »
"Just to put the drag argument to rest, one of our old members had a chain dyno (yeah, who thought they had such a thing), and the o-ring chain did in fact drag more... UNTIL, it got warm, after it was up to temps, it was the same or better than a non-ring chain."

 ;)




Well there you go, good info but chain dyno?? indeed something I would not have thought existed, cool deal. Now let's put this to rest, before it leads to steering dampers, points, pods....... ;D

yep, this could easy degenerate into an "what oil to use?" type of thread...

Offline simon#42

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Re: Chains
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 08:42:34 AM »
sorry brent i do have to add to this !  i had this argument a few years ago so to find out did some back to back runs on my dyno . first run was with a new 520 ek non o ring chain second was with a new 520 x ring chain third was with an old ek 520 x ring chain and the last was with an old ek 520 non o ring chain  . when i say an old chain i mean has done it 4 meetings , best power was the old non o ring, second was the old x ring , third was with the new non o ring and third was with the new x ring
on a 75 hp bike there was only just over 1 hp covering the lot
as long as the chain is in good condition , well adjusted , well lubed and runs straight i dont think there is much in it .
having said that i always use non o ring chains because they are easier to clean properly [ i throw them in an ultrasonic bath ] and those o rings must use some power!!

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2012, 09:36:35 AM »
+1 Simon#42,just my .02 Brent.Had too,Bill....broken in non O ring the best for all out power to rear wheel.A strong enough 520 would be great.....but so many case repairs over the years,I'm still using 530. ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Chains
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 09:47:05 AM »
Simon, did you warm the chain before you tested and were they all lubed with the same sort of lube. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Chains
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 10:20:31 AM »
1 bhp over 75? that could fall well within the variation of dyno runs anyway. dont think i am going to loose any sleep over that..... thanks for the info simon!


Offline Bluegreen

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Re: Chains
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 10:28:44 AM »
Well I guess one more question shouldn't hurt :)
Will a 520 O ring chain rub against a 500/550 crankcase?

Offline bwaller

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Re: Chains
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2012, 10:48:09 AM »
A 520 o-ring will not touch the cases.   EDIT, to be cautious.... the 520 o-ring on my wifes 550 bike doesn't touch.  ;D

I sure like the o-ring chains on the street.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Chains
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2012, 10:57:47 AM »
Why is everyone ignoring inertia?  Within the same chain size family, an O ring or X ring chain will always be more weight.  All the pins have to be longer which equals more mass/weight.

To change inertia, work is required, and work = HP in drag racing.  This is a separate factor than the friction between seal devices, X or O.

Doesn't the chain dyno measure HP after it has attained speed and overcome inertial effects?

Given the same HP output, a lighter bike will be faster than a heavier one in acceleration, as less weight allows a faster change of inertia with the same work input.
In this case, the Ring type chains add inertial weight to chain movement during acceleration as well as to the overall bike's total weight.

About X ring chains:
I thought the x ring chains were developed so they would offer LESS friction while bending, as they apply less less side pressure to accomplish the same sealing job to be accomplished.  Is there another reason for the x ring introduction?
 This is again a physics principle.  The seal contact points are on a longer pressure applying arm than a oring contact, so they apply less pressure to the side plates.

Cheers,
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Chains
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2012, 11:05:23 AM »
Well I guess one more question shouldn't hurt :)
Will a 520 O ring chain rub against a 500/550 crankcase?

It shouldn't if the custom sprockets place the chain in the same center position on the output shaft.

Be aware you could even use a 530 ring chain on a 550 if you offset the front sprocket 1/2 of the total width addition of a ring chain over a standard.

Ring chains are a longer lasting option if you plan on ignoring chain maintenance. (The wear resistance ratings are comparing dry chains of each model.)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline NickO

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Re: Chains
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2012, 12:48:37 PM »
A good friend of mine who has had quite a lot of success road racing at international level always uses  non O-ring 520 chain, but he would NEVER enter a race with a new chain, only one that has done some mileage............go figure.

Offline simon#42

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Re: Chains
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 12:59:00 AM »
this harks back to the days when chains were not very good , its not to do with friction its about pre stretching the chain . chains would always 'give ' when first used then would settle down and be quite constant until worn . one of the first jobs you had to do in TT practice was run in a chain [ and a set of brake pads ]   but not any more .