Topic: Re: K Two *** [FINISHED] ***

[jerry h]

I've been meaning to start a restoration thread for a while, but have been putting it off, so here's a few posts to get started and brought up to date.  Patient build date is 2/72,  entered service as a conservative briar brown, and later updated to an all black look.  The bike was sporting all the proper 70's accoutrements, fairing, king and queen seat, sissy bar, heavy metal rack, and the 2 into 1 pipes.  Plan is to do a ride-able restoration... not a "show" bike, but as OEM as I can make it.   







Flying under the radar with the cover of darkness, the CB makes it way to my garage....


The front brake piston was rusted tight, so I loosened up the pad so I could move the bike. That made for a nervous unload from the trailer by myself with only the rear brake, riding it down backwards, but made it no problem.

Of course the first plan of attack was to free the CB from its 70's shackles..... and I could swear the bike looks happier allready


Initial plan is to strip it down to the frame so I can clean, paint and polish every nut and bolt, replace the worn items, the usual (tires, chain, sprocket, fuel lines,brakes and carb overhaul) and engine wise, just replace the head gasket and pucks to clean up the oil leaks.  The bike has 23K on it, so I'm assuming there shouldn't be too much engine work, but we'll see....

Welded up a quick jig to get the engine out.... went ok with a little encouragement.



Took advantage of some very unseasonably warm weather we had a while back in WI, and sandblasted the frame, primed and painted.  I went with paint (PPG Omni single stage 2k)  rather than powdercoat, to keep it more of a restoration attempt, although I'd imagine the original paint was probably baked on.



The chrome pieces all had a kind of dirt/light surface rust finish on them, some with a few deeper rust pits.  I soaked them in a pail of Gunk degreaser/ hot water mix to loosen up the layers of dust and grime, then gently rubbed with a soft nylon brush, followed by hand polishing with a rag and chrome polish - they cleaned up nicely, looks good from a few feet away, but have fine pits from the rust.

The chrome bits are good for now, maybe at a later date, I could have some re-chromed as $$ allows.

 Its nice to have some "finished" items to look at when you need some encouragement.










   

[dhall57]

Looking good!! Keep up the good work

[hoodellyhoo]

Nice K2 project! I agree on having some finished parts around to look at for encouragement.

[MrGardman]

Looks like you have a great start to the project. Keep up the good work.

[lucky]

Looks great!!
Why did you not just wait until the whole bike was tore down then just lift the frame off of the engine???  Much easier.

When you put it back together, just lower the frame over the engine. Piece of cake.

[jerry h]

Thanks everyone...

Lucky, excellent advise - I did it that way because of inexperience!!!  I know for a fact, when its time to re assemble, the motor will be going on its side, and the frame gently lowered on it.  It seemed like fun to get the block and tackle and the chains and make a big production out of it, but once was enough.

Forgot to add to the earlier post, before painting the frame I did the All Balls tapered bearing replacement to the neck, and had the swingarm rebuilt by Hondaman (its like getting a brand new unit back in the mail- I'm thrilled with it, and Mark is FANTASTIC to deal with)

[jerry h]

Thanks to a recent thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86060.msg1127867#msg1127867
I was inspired to freshen up the wire harness.  The plastic sleeving was brittle and cracked when the wheel was turned, so I ordered new connectors and sleeving from vintageconnections.com as well as some sleeving from Mcmaster car, and went at it.



little while later.....



Waiting to hear back from the machine shop on how the pistons/cylinders measure up, and if they can clean the valves/seats up..... I'll post some about the engine at that time.

[Johnie]

Nice build thread Jerry. I can not believe how much nicer it looked just with the fairing and stuff off there. And I am surely not a fan of the KQ seat. Gosh I think those look ugly on these bikes. My K4 came with a Corbin KQ which I promptly sold. Coming along good. I will keep tuning in. Good luck with it. You are going to love the candy gold!!!

[jerry h]

Amazing how little I have to show for the last several weeks of work, most of it spent researching the archives on this site, digging through the shop manual and Hondaman's book.... being this is my first 750 tear down, the learning curve is pretty steep, but learning ALOT! 

The original plan for the engine was to replace the head gasket and pucks to stop some of the usual oil leaks, clean up, paint and polish, but when I opened the valve cover up, I found one of the cam journals and bearings had done battle with a foreign intruder.



I've located a good replacement camshaft from a fellow forum member, but still trying to find some decent cam towers.  Since that's the last part of engine assembly, I'm putting the cam tower issue on hold, and continue on down below.
With the damage to the camshaft, I don't feel confident about assuming the rest of the engine is in top shape and going on blindly, so I'm going to do a complete strip down, and find out what condition the rest is in.

Removed the cylinders and head and dropped off at a local machine shop to inspect -----

(fast forward two weeks)

Some good news -  got a call from the machine shop, the cylinders and head check out fine, with only 23k on the bike,  that's what I was expecting, but nice to know for sure.  I printed all the specs I could find from the manual and Hondaman's book, and had him measure everything.  He put a fine cross hatch on the cylinders, trued up the head and block, touched up the valves, and should be good to go with a new set of rings.





With the cylinders and head sorted out, I moved on to the bottom end.  Don't know why it was so scarey cracking the transmission apart, but I spent way too much time thinking about it.  Wasn't as bad as I was expecting.  Its really quite a simple and rugged design.  Happy to report nothing (to my eyes at least) out of the ordinary in the lower half, that a lot of  cleaning won't take care of.



Of course its not as easy as that..... apparently when lifting the bottom case off, I must have bumped one of the crankshaft clam shell bearings on the crank, and put a scratch in it.  Stinks... but it forced me to learn about Honda's bearing codes...  New bearings are easily obtained from most of the OEM parts houses, but I had to figure out which to order.  My case was stamped with BBBBB and the crankshaft markings were J L AAAAA, so a quick trip to the shop manual, and about two hours of searching this sites archives, I came to the conclusion that I needed to order a set of "green" "C" bearings, or part # 13317-300-013... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.



Quick trip to Advance Auto for some Plastigauge, another parts order online, and I'm ready to do some bearing work. 

Speaking about ordering parts..... wow, I'm just doing a stock engine "refresh"... gaskets, cam chain, cam chain guide, cam chain tensioner, primary chains, primary tensioner, piston rings,.......... the list never seems to end!   I have to say, it is fun to come home to see a box waiting, but not waiting so much to get the credit card bill. 


Tomorrow the plan is to take the clutch apart, and see how that looks, then clean everything out of the cases to give them a thorough cleaning, and then maybe start the reassembly process.   

Forgot to mention earlier.... I've decided to have the tank and covers professionally painted.  The earlier plan was to buy all the supplies and have a try at it myself.... but after contacting fellow SOHC4 member Johnnie, (who lives a few towns over from me) and seeing his candy gold K1, all thoughts of applying a candy finish myself are gone.   I contacted the body shop he recommended and met with the painter.  Super nice people..... dropped the tins off and now its like waiting for Xmas to come! 
Johnnie's bikes look really nice from the pictures he posts online, but in person they are unbelievable!!!!   

I have a few days of vacation the end of next week (actual time to devote to engine building!), so hopefully some progress to report next time.

[bjatwood]

Looking good Jerry!
Subscribed 

[Johnie]

So any updates there Jerry???

[hoodellyhoo]

What machine shop did you use to check your cylinders? I'm going to need that done for my 350f but have no idea where to look.

[lucky]

Its getting happy.

CLICK on photo FOR LARGER image

[lucky]

You could just exchange that cam for a 41a from Cycle-X ( Exchange).
You can run the same carbs and everything.

Another way is to have the end of the cam machined down just enough to accomodate a hard shell needle roller bearing.

They put needle roller bearings in the older CB350 twin racing bikes.

[jerry h]

Hi all,

-hoodellyhoo  - I used Appleton Crankshaft http://www.appletoncrankshaft.com/  - I photocopied the shop manual page with the various specs, and dropped it off with the cylinders/pistons and head, and had them measure everything.

Been busy working on the cases.  After reading hours of (sometimes horror) stories in the archives about bead blasting and soda blasting, I decided to go with the less glamorous elbow grease method of cleaning (no beads to clean out of everywhere).  Few hours of scrubbing with mineral spirits, paint brushes, tooth brushes and picks,  followed by a Gunk foamy engine brite degreaser / careful car wash high pressure sprayer bath,  followed by the sanding of the old paint, a once over with the green scotchbrite pad,  good rubdown with some Dupont Prep-sol, and they are ready to paint!   Used the standard Dupli-Color DE1615 - Engine Enamel with Ceramic.  I let it cure for a day, then did a light bake in the oven (I did 170 for a half hour, and then cool down in the oven for another half hour)  --- because they were already dry,  there was minimal odor, just enough to have the wife ask if I was doing something in the kitchen      






Now that that's done the new problem is what to do about all of the nuts and bolts.  I was looking into buying a zinc plating kit from Caswell or Eastwood, but I suspect they are a "beginner" type kit....  i hate to spend the money only to end up wishing I had brought the stuff to a professional.   The bonus for the home kit is you can do a few items at a time and keep everything organized.... I'm a little nervous about dumping an entire bikes nuts and bolts and misc pieces into a five gallon bucket, get it plated, then sort it all out like a puzzle when you get it back, but that's probably what I'll end up doing.  There's a plating place not too far from here, will have to give them a call.   

More fun... I started to work on the handle bars,  I want to replace the tubing for the wires (they are hard, brittle and cracking from the bars going down into the headlight) and do something with the finish on the handlebar switches,  the black finish has faded to almost white.  After I removed the grips and switches I discovered the bars are tweaked.... the bike must have tipped over and caught the bars.  There's no evidence of any skid marks anywhere else, so I'm assuming a tip over must have bent them.   Of course nobody has the K2 bars in stock OEM......  the online catalogs list them, but when you call, they are disc.   If anyone has a good set they want to get rid of, let me know, or if there's  an aftermarket set that is exactly like OEM.   I hate to buy one off Ebay, because I'd probably end up with one as good as mine.

The last issue I'm working on before engine assembly can commence, is I don't like how loose the fit between the kick start shaft and the kick start gear (the gear operates both the kick start and drives the oil pump) is.   From my limited measuring abilities, it looks like the gears bushing is at Honda's wear out limit, so another trip to Appleton Crankshaft this week to see if they can put a new bushing in that gear.  I have the wear out specs from the manual, but does anyone know what the clearance should be between the shaft and a "new" bushing?     

Now back to my 1 step forward, 3 steps back(to ponder and obsess over everything I did and am planning to do) restoration
 
Thanks for stopping by,
Take care

 
 

[Johnie]

Jerry...good progress there. Try an ad for those K2 bars in the "wanted" area of this board. If you are looking OEM try Western Hills Honda in OH. They bought up a lot of old dealership parts and have a huge inventory. They are great to work with and get the thumbs up from many of us on the boards. You can call them at 513-662-7759. Ask for the vintage parts department. You will probably get Ed and he is a good guy. I think you might be able to find those bars from a Honda dealer, but might take a week or so.

[jerry h]

Plugging along - still looking for the one part on this bike that can be washed off and put on the "finished" pile without work, but haven't found it yet.
(update from my last post) After proper measurement, the kick starter gear busing and shaft were still in spec, so back in they went. 

Been busy sandblasting, priming and painting black stuff....



Did some more engine painting... and another light bake in the oven.... I'm getting good at baking cb750's 






With that done, next up was to experiment with home zinc electroplating....



I was happy with the results, and had some fun doing it, of course the test of time will tell how well...
I used a 5volt 2amp supply from an old computer for the power, and basically copied alot from this website - http://home.comcast.net/~rt66tbird/website/zincplating.html
The parts come out dull gray, a very light brush off with a soft wire brush, and they look like new. 99.99 pure zinc bars from ebay seller, few trips to hardware store and junk box, and bolts for the bottom half are ready to go.

I got the lower half back together, thought it would be a great relief, but until the engine is running well and not leaking oil, there will be no satisfaction, unfortunately that's several months to a year away.
Like everything I was worried about applying the Threebond 1194 on the cases in time before it sets up too much, and getting everything torqued up etc, in time, (it took me about 20 to 30 minutes for the whole process, so we will see).  No stripped bolts, so thats a plus

The new primary chains and tensioner look ready for action:


Here's where I'm at (with a few covers set on the engine for fun)





Next up, get the clutch back in, then get the the lower half up and out of my basement workshop to the garage, and start on assembling the top half of the engine.

Happy 7/4/12

[Johnie]

Coming along just fine. That is sure a "purdy " motor Jerry. Remember to put some sealant on the rubber grommet where the stator wires exit the cover. Those do leak on occasion and become a real pain as you would swear it is the stator gasket. Been there....

I will be stopping at In-Line the end of this week. I will check on that candy gold while I am there and will get back to you.

[jerry h]

Here's my little report to keep the thread up to date:  Quite simply, I've been putting all of the stuff I took off, or out of the engine, back on, or in it.  Looking forward to putting the engine back into the frame. 

Another update: the paint shop called and said the tank and covers (candy gold) are done.... however with my work schedule, I won't be able to pick them up till next week.    
I'll post some pics when I get them home -  cant wait! 

The piles of parts are slowly shrinking!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Great looking mill.   

[Johnie]

Dang Jerry...if I need an overhaul I am coming to your place!!! Looking good...

[bjatwood]

Very good looking engine you have there Jerry! I'm jealous 

[jerry h]

Well, for better or worse, I've got the engine pretty much buttoned up.  Covers cleaned and polished, don't see any extra parts laying around, so I'm going to stop second guessing myself and get the engine back where it belongs.










For the last 2 weeks I've been going over and over in my head what would be the best way to accomplish said task,  with emphasis on not ruining a cover, bending fins, having engine fall over, scratching paint, etc. - use chain and tackle to lift engine in frame, set engine on side and lower frame, have frame on ground ....................   until one night I decided enough is enough and "just do it".  I know you  sohc veterans are laughing at me now, its such a simple operation in reality, took about 10 minutes.  I turned and tilted the engine on my cart, braced it up with some scrap wood, then had my wife help me carefully lower the frame on it and put a few bolts in.  You'll notice there are no pics of this,  I was freaking out having the engine on its side,  precariously propped up with scrap lumber, with visions of it tipping over somehow racing through my head, so there was no time for pictures.   In reality, the time spent wrapping and taping the frame was a waste, with the engine is on its side, the frame just lowers on it.... piece of cake.











I have a frame and engine !










Sorry - one more.... kind of like this pic:










Now for something entirely different~


Here's what I dropped off at the painters: (both original covers were broken, one side was epoxied together, the other had a hunk broke off and missing, so I ordered new ones from  fellow SOHC member - http://www.fb-stuff.com/sohc-side-covers.html
Thanks man!  Super fast shipping, great product!








And here is what I picked up last week:










I couldn't be happier with the way they turned out.  The candy gold looks amazing,  also the stripe is painted on, not a decal!  Wish you all could see it in person, the online pictures don't really show how amazing a job the painter did. 













(note the tree reflections in the picture)





Ok - put tank and covers safely away and get back to work.....    next up ......  wheels.



The rear wheel cleaned up very nicely, the front turns out has deep rust under the layer of grime and dirt, so I decided to find a  replacement.









Located a replacement rim, has good chrome, but of course the PO had to spray paint the hub, so that will have to be dealt with. 








New Conti's have arrived and are waiting.








To do list: order new bearings, and check how true the rims are, and try and get some sleep!   

[dangerdan408]

Congrats on the build, you have made a TON of ground with this bike, that bodywork is beautiful.  Good job!

[Johnie]

Great pics Jerry. I really like how that white looks with the stripe on the K2. She sets it off really nice. Without going  back through the posts please tell me you did indeed prime the oil pump. She will go back together nicely. Keep us informed...