Author Topic: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)  (Read 2279 times)

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Offline SAEmiles

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Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« on: May 02, 2012, 09:31:00 am »
I know this topic has been beat to death, but I wanted to verify before I went down the road of pulling the head, etc.


I have tried tensioning the cam chain on my 77 550F with the engine off and rotated 15* TDC, and I have also tried tensioning with the engine running with similar results.  I have read that the adjuster screw is only capable of a 1/4 turn in either direction and should (under ideal conditions) automatically adjust itself. However I find that mine does not adjust itself, and if I lightly turn the screw I am able to make a complete revolution. When adjusting the screw with the engine running it reaches a point where the chain noise is reduced, but I have not been able to successfully tighten the nut and have it remained tensioned.

In my understanding of the mechanism, this points to a stripped gear, but could this instead indicate that the cam chain is stretched beyond the adjustment range of the tensioner?


Offline Duanob

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 09:37:21 am »
Sounds like you need to pull it out and check it. You will have to pull the carbs, head, exhaust, jugs, etc. I know that's not what you wanted to hear!
The only problem left on my bike is the nut that holds onto the handle bars! ;)

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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 09:40:20 am »
You don't need the cylinders of to check/replace the tensioner iirc.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 09:43:59 am »
Yeah, that is what I'm afraid of, but I think it needs to happen. I'm supposed to be riding to the keys memorial day weekend, so I'm trying to get this sorted out.

As far as not taking the jugs off. I read that when you relieve tension from the head studs that it can disrupt the lower jug gasket. Is that just a worst case scenario?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 09:51:16 am »
I removed the head on mine in the view to inspecting the rings/pistons. The cylinders would not budge so I reassembled it.  ::)
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline lucky

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 09:56:49 am »
When you did not get the results you wanted you then said you tried it with the engine running.

You ran the risk of the cam chain getting very loose and jumping a tooth or more and possibly destroying the engine!!!

I do not know that model extensively but what I would do is do the adjustment exactly as the book says!!!!

You said when you did do it as it was supposed to be done, it did get quieter.
Sounds like it did what it was supposed to.
Do you think the engine is supposed to be absolutely quiet?
What if the cam chain is worn then of course the adjuster can only take out so much slack.

Offline lucky

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 09:59:52 am »
Yeah, that is what I'm afraid of, but I think it needs to happen. I'm supposed to be riding to the keys memorial day weekend, so I'm trying to get this sorted out.

As far as not taking the jugs off. I read that when you relieve tension from the head studs that it can disrupt the lower jug gasket. Is that just a worst case scenario?

The head studs have nothing to do with the cam chain tensioner.

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 10:24:06 am »
The head studs have nothing to do with the cam chain tensioner.

Did you miss a reply or two. He's talking about removing the head to check if the tensioner is functioning.

My bike's PO must have tried adjusting the tension by turning that self adjuster as when I checked it the little teeth were all chewed up.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 10:25:39 am »

Offline DukieDukenDuke

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 10:40:04 am »
Which manual are you referring to when you make the adjustment?

I ask this because the Clymer tells me to adjust at 15 degrees like you said but the Honda manual says at TDC for my 750.
Mine was noisy at 15 degrees so I went with the Honda recommended adjustment at TDC and quiet from then on.

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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 10:41:43 am »
My Haynes manual states this. 15 degrees is the spring post after the 1/4 marks.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 10:57:35 am »
Which manual are you referring to when you make the adjustment?

I ask this because the Clymer tells me to adjust at 15 degrees like you said but the Honda manual says at TDC for my 750.
Mine was noisy at 15 degrees so I went with the Honda recommended adjustment at TDC and quiet from then on.


You are right, the manuals seem conflicted on this. However, they both state that that the adjuster should spring to the correct tension automatically, which mine does not.

I think the best option is going to be to pull the head and verify the condition of all the components. I'm looking at gasket kits currently.

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 11:01:46 am »
You only need a head gasket. At least that's all I've ever bought.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline Duanob

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 11:10:52 am »
I removed the head on mine in the view to inspecting the rings/pistons. The cylinders would not budge so I reassembled it.  ::)

Count yourself lucky. Usually removing the head will loosen the jugs and cause leaks between the jugs and the case.
The only problem left on my bike is the nut that holds onto the handle bars! ;)

1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 Delux "HONDA-GUZZI"

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Offline DukieDukenDuke

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 12:24:19 pm »
Try it at TDC before tearing apart the engine if the Honda manual says that, the Clymer manual is wrong about a few things.
 
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 02:08:40 pm »
Try it at TDC before tearing apart the engine if the Honda manual says that, the Clymer manual is wrong about a few things.
 

I will, I'm going to check everything before I resort to a teardown. 

Offline Duanob

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 03:08:59 pm »
If you can turn the tensioner screw more than a half a turn I think the tensioner is toast. Good luck with it.

BTW counter-clockwise tightens the chain, clockwise loosens it. 
The only problem left on my bike is the nut that holds onto the handle bars! ;)

1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 Delux "HONDA-GUZZI"

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Offline Frostyboy

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 05:27:41 am »
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 06:07:38 am by Frostyboy »
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Offline Dimitri13

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 02:05:50 pm »
I removed the head on mine in the view to inspecting the rings/pistons. The cylinders would not budge so I reassembled it.  ::)

Count yourself lucky. Usually removing the head will loosen the jugs and cause leaks between the jugs and the case.

Ain't that the truth. I thought I had fixed all my leaks when I replaced the head gasket. Nope, the base gasket started leaking after that -.-

Offline dave500

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 01:06:59 am »
id remove the tensioner and have a look,you risk major damage i think,that screw turning a full turn is wrong,dont risk the ride you planned on,youll get the chain off easy if you unbolt the cam sprocket and let the sprocket wobble off,thatll slacken the chain enough,they can be a fiddle if the sprocket has the plastic guide,i remove them once the sprocket is off.

Offline Frostyboy

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 05:57:24 pm »
I set an email alert from David Silver a while ago for when new tensioners are available. I got a message yesterday. It maybe what you want? Be quick, they only have 2 available.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107057.0
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Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2012, 10:44:26 am »
I pulled the head and tensioner last night. The stamped steel part of the tension gear assembly appears to be stripped. I am looking into options for a replacement. Thank you Frostyboy for a heads up.

I do have a question on reassembly though. I have read multiple places that the cylinder needs to be lifted to replace the tensioner. I assume that when the cylinders are lifted that the base gasket absolutely needs to be replaced, but is it possible to reuse the cylinder rings after the cylinder has been removed?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 05:05:53 am »
I replaced mine without removing or lifting the cylinders.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'.

Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline SAEmiles

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 12:28:32 pm »
That is good to hear. I'm in the process of cleaning everything this afternoon, and hopefully it will go back together in the next few days

Offline Duanob

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Complete rotation (CB550)
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 12:32:39 pm »
I replaced mine without removing or lifting the cylinders.

Again, count yourself lucky. I've tried twice with no luck. It worked fine and I didn't want to force it I just wanted to clean it. I think with proper tension and a good spring it will not be easy to get the sucker out. I just sprayed some good triflow into the mechanism as far as I could get it and worked it good so it works good and smooth and left it in place.

Also I have a weep between my case and jugs from the last time I replced the head gasket. I can live with it.
The only problem left on my bike is the nut that holds onto the handle bars! ;)

1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 Delux "HONDA-GUZZI"

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_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)