Author Topic: Custom forward controls and combining front brake with rear pedal??? 75' CB750  (Read 15025 times)

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Offline ffemt2466

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I am trying to find some different plans for homemade forward controls for my 75' CB750. I am also looking for ways to take the front brake off of the handlebars and combine it with the rear brake pedal, I have seen this a few times but unsure of the details of the plans. Thanks for any and all info!!

Joe

Offline mono

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not knowing anything about this, i'd say you'd probably be going for a hydraulic rear brake with this mod and use some kind of differential to control the braking ratio between the front and back.

i know that's a vague answer, but that's where i'd begin.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 01:47:11 PM by mono »

Offline grcamna2

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Many Honda GL Goldwings have that linked front & rear brake system;you should be able to swap in one of those systems.It's controlled by the brake pedal just like what you want.

I agree w/ mono about having to go hydraulic for front & rear..you may have to swap wheels...to get rear disc.I think I heard of someone using a hub from another model for the rear disc when swapping from drum rear to disc rear.I'm not sure what mid 70's makes or models use a spoke wheel for rear disc;it'll take a bit of research if you want to keep spoke wheels.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 04:22:57 PM by grcamna2 »
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Offline ffemt2466

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That sounds perfect, I will look into that. I just want as clean of bars as I can get. Also does anyone know of any plans to make custom lowering blocks? I know I sound like a cheapskate but I'd rather build something than buy it, thanks!

Offline lucky

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It is not a good idea to combine the back and front brake.
The back brake when it is used should always be applied before the front brake in a heavy braking situation, and the release of front and back brake is important as far as the sequence.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 04:13:39 PM by lucky »

Offline robvangulik

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Dear Lucky, you're talking gibberish, Honda has built the Dual Combined Brake System for more than 20 years on many types of motorcycle, even before any other manufacturer was even thinking about things like ABS, and it works fantastic.

Offline stampederunner

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Dear Lucky, you're talking gibberish, Honda has built the Dual Combined Brake System for more than 20 years on many types of motorcycle, even before any other manufacturer was even thinking about things like ABS, and it works fantastic.

Yeah it's been around for a while, but it's not optimal. I couldn't stand the thought of linked brakes on any of my bikes. However it sounds like the OP is building more of a cruiser/chopper type bike and in that application linked brakes would sufficient.
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Offline ffemt2466

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You are correct, I am going for a chopper/bobber type bike, lowered rear, 14" apes, whitewalls, red wheels etc...Thanks for the replys, anyone know about the forward controls? And maybe lowering blocks?

Offline luap

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Offline Retro Rocket

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It is not a good idea to combine the back and front brake.
The brake brake when it is used should always be applied before the front brake in a heavy braking situation, and the release of front and back brake is important as far as the sequence.

Not only is it gibberish, the braking advice is down right dangerous . The front brake should do 90% of your braking, hitting the rear first will, in most cases lock the rear and cause chaos, the rear will go wherever it likes once locked and is worse when the front is applied, the front scrubs off speed far more efficiently than the rear, meaning the rear is still trying to travel faster than the front whilst locked up. I don't know where some of you guys learned to ride but the rear brake is great for low speed stability and control, under heavy brakes, the front does almost all the work. If you have to do an emergency stop you should be going down gears quickly whilst applying the front brake heavily, if there is no time to down change the it is the front brake that will save your life, NO heavy braking should be done with the rear brake, it does sweet F@#& All  in slowing you down fast....
Joined braking systems have been around for a very long time, Honda, Kawasaki, Moto Guzzi, BMW and more use these systems, Guzzi's have had it since the mid 70's.
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Offline dave500

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i dont believe i just read luckys post,,thats why hes called lucky i guess?just out of interest,when my rear tyre is due to be replaced i find a quiet out of the way spot near home and practise a few moderate speed rear wheel lock ups,causing flat spots on the worn out tyre but keeping my skills honed,i get it sideways a little left and right aswell,being more of a dirt rider it comes a bit natural,but the road bikes dont steer the same in that sort of situation.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:01:39 AM by dave500 »

Offline mono

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Retro -

i think there are a lot of different schools of thought on how braking/brakes should be properly utilized.

I took the Ohio Rider's Safety course last year (a state-endorsed motorcycle course) and they taught us that you should use the front for 60% of braking and the rear for 40%, but always the 2 at once.  we also practiced emergency braking at "high" speeds of about 25MPH where they had us pretty much full brake on front and rear while downshifting.

all the old-timers i know say "STAY OFF THE FRONT BRAKE!!" and others say to avoid the rear. 

if you lock just your rear up, you're going to slide in a straight line unless you're in a turn.
if you lock up just the front while going straight, who knows what will happen.  probably something acrobatic.
in a turn, good luck with either?  lol.

i personally use mostly the rear brake, just like i do on my bicycle, and apply the front as needed.

but i think a person should brake in a way that they are comfortable with -- if you can maintain control at 90% front braking that's awesome.  I personally would feel weird doing that, and you'd probably be uncomfortable with how i brake.  but i think as long as braking is done consistently, the rider will learn how to control the bike using their specific braking style. 

i'm sure there's an ideal ratio in braking, but since there are always so many road factors, i think maximum control using a chosen style is probably the most important thing, no?

Offline ffemt2466

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Has anyone on here made their own front, rear brake combo or forward controls? That's what I'm looking for really

Offline grcamna2

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Has anyone on here made their own front, rear brake combo or forward controls? That's what I'm looking for really
That may be tough to find..
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline stampederunner

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Has anyone on here made their own front, rear brake combo or forward controls? That's what I'm looking for really

For the brake setup I would go search around a motorcycle junk yard. I'm not sure how you would link a hydraulic disc front brake and rear drum brake. I would plan on swapping the rear to disc, then pick up a master cylinder and proportioning valve from a donor bike, then custom length steel braided lines to each caliber.

For the forward controls I would look on the honda chopper forums. I have seen plenty of homebrewed forward controls there. I have also seen a few online that are pretty much bolt on kits that probably don't cost too much more than you would have in materials if you made your own.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Quote
if you lock just your rear up, you're going to slide in a straight line unless you're in a turn.
if you lock up just the front while going straight, who knows what will happen.  probably something acrobatic.
in a turn, good luck with either?  lol.

I don't know about your roads but ours are cambered, you lock the rear and the back of the bike goes towards the shoulder, in the wet you are down before you know it, locking the front would be something a novice would do, it is quite hard to do unless you panic in which case you aren't in control at all.  There is nothing wrong with braking in turns mate, as long as you know what you are doing you can brake deep into turns, mainly front brake though. I have ridden hard all my life and never lost a bike due to poor brake control, quite the opposite, it was my advantage over my friends, no of them could out brake me into a corner. Most of what you said in your post is relevant at slower speeds where it is less likely that you will lock the brake although, i watched a guy on a Harley lock the rear at 30 MPH and slide straight into the back of a boat being towed, the bottom of the outboard motor split his chest in half and he died in front of me, if he had used his front brake he wouldn't have hit anything. In our advanced rider training programs they teach hard front braking for emergency stops, 40, 50, 60 MPH panic stops and it is almost all front brake. Watch any motorcycle racing and you will see everything i have stated, they brake extremely hard with the front at huge speeds, a lot of the time with no rear brake at all {the back wheel is in the air}, and deep into corners. Everyone should learn the limitations of their brakes as early on in their riding career as possible, it has saved me on many occasions, {i have never had an accident that was my fault}, i had one situation where i was riding with a mate, i was on a 750/4 with twin discs and Peter was on a 500/4 with stock brakes, a car came straight through a stop sign in front of us {at a school  ::)}, i stopped about 5 meters from the car, peter hit it smack in the middle of the rear guard, it was purely my ability under brakes that helped me stop in time, Pete locked his rear and just kept going.. In 90% + of situations on the road it will be your front brake that will save your life, the rear can easily make things ugly real quick.

Quote
i'm sure there's an ideal ratio in braking,

That ratio changes the faster or slower you go and depending on circumstances, put it this way, if you were trying to stop using your method at the same speed as me using mine, you would be amazed at how far down the road you would stop ahead of me, i'm not bragging here, just trying to get across the importance of good braking technique and being confident with your brakes.... I spent a lot of time around motorcycle racing when i was younger and learned most everything from those guys, riding dirt bikes aggressively helped as well.... ;)
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Offline grcamna2

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Front brakes will save your life ! as long as you can get the bike straightened out a bit before using them REAL hard.
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  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline phil71

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I'll give you 1 guess why no one has a suggestion for a single action brake setup.

Offline Don R

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Working on stopping is very important as mentioned above. Practice safely but practice stopping. The unified brake system is something only a few have tried to retro fit and I'm guessing most of those are show bikes, not real riders.
 Personally, I just cut up a set of 14" apehangers to get the wires out easier. I hated even moving the bike around in the shop with them. That's just me.
 Good luck and don't compromise safety for looks. Want some 6" over forks? I can make a heck of a deal.
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Offline ffemt2466

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Well my goal is to get as clean of bars as I can and the reason I want 14" apes and forward controls is because I am 6'4" and I like a low comfortable ride. I am dropping the back end with shorter shocks and lowering blocks and I think I can fab my own forward controls. Maybe my solution is a cooler setup other than a traditional brake lever???

Offline 6adan

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I know on the early Goldwings( 83 was the first year) with the linked system the foot pedal worked the rear and the right front with the hand lever working the left front.The right caliper also had smaller pistons than the left.
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Offline phil71

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wait! I have one idea that might be viable. WHAT IF, the foot control had TWO levers on one shaft, rear on the inside, and higher than front, front on the outside (or right) and adjusted lower than the rear.. so a gentle application would engage rear then front.. resulting in a stable but firm stop. THen, in those scarier times when you really need the control that the front brake provides, you could just shift your toe to the outside control only?

Offline grcamna2

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I guess it all depends on what type or size shoes you're wearing  ;D
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline lucky

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Dear Lucky, you're talking gibberish, Honda has built the Dual Combined Brake System for more than 20 years on many types of motorcycle, even before any other manufacturer was even thinking about things like ABS, and it works fantastic.

Something equally condescending....LOL  Apples and Oranges Robvangulik !

With modern computer aided controls on the brakes, and the system designed from the very start to be that way- yes. But not on this 33 year old motorcycle.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Dear Lucky, you're talking gibberish, Honda has built the Dual Combined Brake System for more than 20 years on many types of motorcycle, even before any other manufacturer was even thinking about things like ABS, and it works fantastic.

Something equally condescending....LOL  Apples and Oranges Robvangulik !

With modern computer aided controls on the brakes, and the system designed from the very start to be that way- yes. But not on this 33 year old motorcycle.

It fine for you to have an opinion but like i said earlier, these type of brakes are NOT uncommon and Guzzi has been using them for more than 33 years, just because you don't like them {probably never used them} doesn't mean they are bad....
750 K2 1000cc
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750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.