Topic: 74 Honda CB500 Four Cafe TX

[Luckystrike]

Well, oil is steadily dripping out of the #2 exhaust. I hit a wall a bit. I have a sizable pool of oil under the bike. What would the next course of action be?

[Luckystrike]

Well, I believe I found the problem. The valve cover gasket was ripped and it took a puck with it. The puck suffered no damage, but I've had to put in an order for a new gasket.

[Trad]

Nice progress! Out of curiosity, did you make sure to clean the head and cylinder after blasting them? That stuff gets everywhere and you want to make damn sure all the threads are chased and the head it flushed and blown out several times before assembly and running the engine.  You really don't want any grit getting stuck in oil galleys.

[Luckystrike]

Nice progress! Out of curiosity, did you make sure to clean the head and cylinder after blasting them? That stuff gets everywhere and you want to make damn sure all the threads are chased and the head it flushed and blown out several times before assembly and running the engine.  You really don't want any grit getting stuck in oil galleys.

Thanks. Yes, I took a parts cleaner gun and flushed out the engine 3 times over with kerosene before I put it back together. I have noticed that the four bolts under the top cover that screw into the engine head , three out of four of them are stripped out from the previous owner. How detrimental are these four bolts?

[Trad]

Nice progress! Out of curiosity, did you make sure to clean the head and cylinder after blasting them? That stuff gets everywhere and you want to make damn sure all the threads are chased and the head it flushed and blown out several times before assembly and running the engine.  You really don't want any grit getting stuck in oil galleys.

Thanks. Yes, I took a parts cleaner gun and flushed out the engine 3 times over with kerosene before I put it back together. I have noticed that the four bolts under the top cover that screw into the engine head , three out of four of them are stripped out from the previous owner. How detrimental are these four bolts?

That's good. It would be a shame to see some grit get between bearings, journals, piston, etc and score it all up.

Are the bolts stripped or are the threads in the cylinder head stripped? And are we talking about bolts that hold the cam cover in place or the bolts that hold the top breather cap in place?

The breather can vent to the atmosphere so its not detrimental to how snug that is. If the cam cap is not solid you will have some serious issues. Hope that helps a bit.

-Jared

[Luckystrike]

Yes, they are the bolts that hold the cam cover in place. The threads in the head are stripped. 3 of 4 are.

[Luckystrike]

I figured I may go the helicoil route on this one. Thoughts?

[Luckystrike]

I decided to pull the engine apart once more. The thought of not replacing the cylinder spigot o rings was eating at me. Plus I wanted to be able to fully diagnose why I was getting an oil leak out of the #2 exhaust. I pulled the cam cover off and it revealed that the gasket had pinched and snapped, taking one of the pucks with it. That explained the leak around the top, but I dug further. I tore it further down and pulled the jugs. I found that the walnut shells that I used to blast the engine seeped in between the jugs and the case. I decided then to clean the studs and flush the case for good measure. When I pulled the jugs off I saw that #2 piston's oil ring was broken and hanging(There was my problem). Luckily, I had a new set of rings on hand. I flushed the case and set to re honing the cylinders and found my biggest problem. #2 and #3 cylinders were both scored. I honed them a little bit, but stopped. I can barely feel the grooves but I'm afraid that won't suffice. I believe these cylinders have already been over sized once. Should I buy a new jug or should I get them rebored to another over size? I'm glad I caught this, but it was one hell of a let down. Or would this be an opportunity to do a bore up? Or will the price tag be more in the long run?

I also configured my seat pan. I included pics of that as well.














 

[Trad]

I would helicoil the head and be done with it for that issue. One time fix.

For the bead, I'm glad you pulled it apart and flushed it again. That stuff get's everywhere. I personally use glass bead on my stuff but I make sure everything is dissembled and blasted in the cabinet. I plug most threads with bolts, tape the oil gallies, etc. When the blast is done I blow everything out with compressed air, wash it numerous times with dish soap until I feel no media residue left in the water/bottom of the wash tub. I then chase all the threads and blow out the oil gallies once more. Personally I would not have blasted an assembled engine/head, etc.

For the scored cylinder was that from the broken ring or the bead?

I would re bore to a dynoman 60 or 61mm kit. I am biased on that though

[Luckystrike]

I would helicoil the head and be done with it for that issue. One time fix.

For the bead, I'm glad you pulled it apart and flushed it again. That stuff get's everywhere. I personally use glass bead on my stuff but I make sure everything is dissembled and blasted in the cabinet. I plug most threads with bolts, tape the oil gallies, etc. When the blast is done I blow everything out with compressed air, wash it numerous times with dish soap until I feel no media residue left in the water/bottom of the wash tub. I then chase all the threads and blow out the oil gallies once more. Personally I would not have blasted an assembled engine/head, etc.

For the scored cylinder was that from the broken ring or the bead?

I would re bore to a dynoman 60 or 61mm kit. I am biased on that though

Yeah, that stuff does get everywhere. I couldn't believe it. Flushing was a a little messy, but I'm glad I did it. The scoring wasn't from the bead. It was from the broken ring in #2 cylinder. #3 is scored as well. I was hoping I didn't have to rebore, which would definitely put my project back again. Do you know of a good kit I could buy? I know I'd have to take it to get it rebored, but is there a particular kit I should look for?

[Trad]

I got the Dynoman 572 Kit. It came with 60mm JE forged pistons, pins, rings (with 3pc oil ring) as well as the correct head gasket. I upgraded everything in my top end from the rockers down to the pistons but you can get away with just re boring and running these pistons. The Kit is not cheap but it is quality.

There are cheap ebay kits and you can also get the NOS Honda cast pistons that go up in size by .25" increments.

It's your call. I went JE forged because you can run a larger piston to wall clearance and in my opinion forged is a better piston design. 

Just search Dynoman Perfomance and you will get the website.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

-Jared

[Luckystrike]

 She moves! I'm happy to report that I took my first ride this weekend. It's been a long time since I posted and while I was waist deep in this project, I saw no need to update until I reached a significant point. I was able to get my jug honed and cleaned, and managed to save the pistons.

I tore out the rear portion of the harness and rebuilt it, replacing ancient/frayed wires. I got the seat upholstered and got the clutch working.

I was able to take it out for a little 3 mile hop to the end of the county road and back. She handles surprisingly well. To tell you the truth, I'm still in shock. After my little trip, I took it back to the shop to address some ailments that I encountered.

I found a slight oil leak coming from the #1 side around the head gasket. It's a small amount of oil on the fins and had left a palm sized pool beneath the alternator. I'm not sure what is causing it. Also, I'm getting a small spray of oil from #3  around the exhaust collar. It's not a lot, but it has me a bit concerned.

I've been working on the front brake lately. I've tried to charge the brake line with fluid and I got a pretty good size leak from the master cylinder under the lever. It puzzles me because I rebuilt it months ago. I have a half a mind to replace it with a brand new one. Any suggestions on a specific brand or type?

Also, my petcock doesn't seem to want to shut off. It still drips.

Even though this was a victory I still have some things to take care of:

1. Address oil leaks around engine
2. Sync Carbs
3. Get front brake working
4. Make side covers
5. Get front and rear lights working correctly
6. Fix petcock
7. Paint tank and pretty her up.

[Luckystrike]

Oh yeah, and make an easy inner fender and buy a new battery, and make a new box for it. My Current battery is crap.

[gheorghe]

Nice progress and good job on the powder coating, I am thinking of ordering a kit and doing some small stuff on my project as well.

[Luckystrike]

Thanks. Yeah it saves a lot of wait time and a bit of cash for sure. It's pretty simple to do. Just get a respirator so you're not harking up black for two days.

[calj737]

Oh yeah, and make an easy inner fender and buy a new battery, and make a new box for it. My Current battery is crap.

Nice looking bike, Lucky. Regarding a rear fender, are you familiar with Vacuum Formed Pastic? Essentially, use foam to mold the shape/contour of the tire (with obvious offset for clearance) then lay special plastic resin sheets over the mold. Insert into a vacuum-capable bag, remove air and allow pressure to form the fender. You can then either use this piece as your permanent fender, or as a plug for FG or CF if you want something different.

The benefit of this is a very lightweight fender, easily replaced if damaged, and you can mount in a variety of means due to its lightness. I'm using this technique for my 550 build and will document it pretty soon if you are curious.

But again, really nice looking bike-

[Luckystrike]

Oh yeah, and make an easy inner fender and buy a new battery, and make a new box for it. My Current battery is crap.

Nice looking bike, Lucky. Regarding a rear fender, are you familiar with Vacuum Formed Pastic? Essentially, use foam to mold the shape/contour of the tire (with obvious offset for clearance) then lay special plastic resin sheets over the mold. Insert into a vacuum-capable bag, remove air and allow pressure to form the fender. You can then either use this piece as your permanent fender, or as a plug for FG or CF if you want something different.

The benefit of this is a very lightweight fender, easily replaced if damaged, and you can mount in a variety of means due to its lightness. I'm using this technique for my 550 build and will document it pretty soon if you are curious.

But again, really nice looking bike-

Thanks. I've never heard of that sort of plastic before. That sounds like it would be just up my alley for what I'm wanting to do. I didn't want to go with the old inner fender and this sounds like a great idea. I look forward to your write up on it. I'm very interested.

[calj737]

Here's a few suppliers:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/vacuum-forming-plastic-sheets

And some techniques:

http://www.studiocreations.com/HOWTO/vacuumforming/index.html

As you'll see, its awfully easy and you can use a simple household vacuum. For my part, Im fortunate that part of $60k in college tuition Im paying for son is his ready access to professional equipment to perform this work. So, I'll be having him pay me back by using the school's equipment for my fenders. ;^)

I'll have him make a couple of blanks so I can experiment with painting 1 black and the other in body paint color.

[Luckystrike]

Here's a few suppliers:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/vacuum-forming-plastic-sheets

And some techniques:

http://www.studiocreations.com/HOWTO/vacuumforming/index.html

As you'll see, its awfully easy and you can use a simple household vacuum. For my part, Im fortunate that part of $60k in college tuition Im paying for son is his ready access to professional equipment to perform this work. So, I'll be having him pay me back by using the school's equipment for my fenders. ;^)

I'll have him make a couple of blanks so I can experiment with painting 1 black and the other in body paint color.

I like this a lot. I wonder if you could get a strong enough plastic to make a cafe seat/cowl.

[calj737]

For a cowl that is not weight-bearing, yes. For a seat, I'd expect that you would need 1/4" think ABS material. I've given that some thought too, and I surmised that by embedding some aluminum tubing in between the layers that should provide sufficient strength. And if not, easy enough to make a new plug and just use fiberglass.

[Luckystrike]

For a cowl that is not weight-bearing, yes. For a seat, I'd expect that you would need 1/4" think ABS material. I've given that some thought too, and I surmised that by embedding some aluminum tubing in between the layers that should provide sufficient strength. And if not, easy enough to make a new plug and just use fiberglass.

That idea alone has me excited. I thought about making a cowl, much like the Thruxton's have for my seat. This just may be the ticket. I wonder what the start up cost would be for something like that.

[calj737]

For your seat/cowl? About $30 for plastic. About another $15 for a bag suitable to vacuum form in. $20-$100 for foam (depending on how much you buy). Hopefully you have a vacuum already ;-)