Topic: Clear instructions for a dual-load equalizer and one pair of signals?

[Smola]

I have been restoring a 78 CB750K for the last 6 months. Most of those months it was not rideable and was stripped down to the frame and engine while working on it. Now, however, the project is nearing completion and I've been reminded of a small issue. My turn signals don't flash. The background:

I removed the front and rear stock turn signals because they were in rough shape and, frankly, just weren't my style. A friend helping me with the restore gave me a pair of smaller turn signals (which are NOT LED). They each have two wires coming from them--1.) a black wire and 2.) a black wire with a white tracer. For the longest time we had them hooked up as front signals, with the black/white wires plugged into the orange and light blue wires in the headlamp, and using electrical tape to seal off the ground wires (we assume they ground to the frame). However they did not flash. Each light came on when the switch was pressed it's direction and even the correct light in the instrument panel came on. I thought the problem was the flasher relay. I replaced it. No change. So I asked a local parts guy about it and he said he had a thing to help compensate for the load of the missing signals. It turned out to be an SDC Dual-Load Equalizer. Well SDC has zero documentation on their site so I set about searching for installation instructions online. I read tons of descriptions about where to put the wires on the circuit and even circuit diagrams, but my guesses didn't seem to pan out.

The DL-EQ has three wires: a purple (left signal), brown (right signal), and black (ground). I am willing to move my turn signals from the front to the rear. I just need to know where and exactly how to connect the DL-EQ to my wiring harness to get these signals flashing. Is there any way to test the DL-EQ with a multimeter? Or any other way?

Help an inexperienced enthusiast out! =]

[Smola]

UPDATE:

As a backup I thought I'd get one of those 3-prong electronic flashers to see if it would solve my problem. It's a 12V, bought from O-Reilly's. I hooked it up, moved the signals to the rear (since there aren't any marker wires to worry about), used the black wire from each signal into the orange and light blue wires and then connected the black/white wires to green ground. Same result as before--BUT! I noticed a quick click as I was pushing the signal switch on the handlebars to either side. So, on a hunch, I started moving the switch back to the center position slowly. After only a few millimeters towards center and the appropriate blinker started blinking fairly briskly.

I am thinking this might mean something is up with the wiring in the switch housing? The housing isn't screwed down all the way because it wouldn't let me when I was assembling it. It felt like the wire bundle coming out was getting in the way, so I had to really squeeze.  The handlebar was a gift and is a powder-coated 7/8" bar. The powder coat has caused some other issues when it comes to fitting things on it. Is it possible that I'm crimping a wire somewhere? If so, how can each signal light up and stay on when I use the switch?

I have attached a photo of a signal, the flasher, and the switch housing.

The plot thickens...

[trueblue]

If they are a standard type bulb in the indicator they aren't polarity sensitive, the only thing you will have to be careful of is if either wire earths to the case of the indicator, which can be checked easily with an ohm meter.  With your indicators not flashing, it could be low battery voltge, a voltage drop somewhere in the circuit or bad contacts in the switch.  By the way the wriggling the switch made it start flashing, my money is on burnt contacts in there, I had this on my 650 and it caused the exact same problem, the indicators would come on, they weren't very bright, give the switch a wriggle and away they went.  There is also something not right with how that switch is mounted, my 650 has a little hole in the bar which locates a pin in the switch housing to stop it turning on the bar and if it isn't in the hole the switch will sit open like that. I'm not sure if the 750's have this hole and pin arrangment but if they do you will probably need to drill a small hole in the bar.

[Smola]

...the only thing you will have to be careful of is if either wire earths to the case of the indicator, which can be checked easily with an ohm meter.

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I check this with an ohm meter (or multimeter)? That is, where should I touch the leads and what ohm reading would I be looking for? Also, should I not be grounding the black/white wire to the green ground? I suppose I could just let each of the black/white wires dangle covered with some electrical tape or something...

As for voltage, the battery is in good condition and holds a charge pretty well. As far as I can tell I've eliminated the accidental grounds from stray wires on the harness, but it's possible I missed something. I've attached photos of the inside of the switch housing. Things look pretty decent inside. I checked for the post you were talking about that would fit into a hole on the handlebars but couldn't find it. It's a good thing because my handlebar isn't stock and I'd be put off if I had to drill into it. =]

The lights are definitely as bright as they should be when I push the switch over. It's just the dang flashing I can't get figured out!

I'd still like someone to chime in about the correct way to install the load equalizer I described in the opening post for both the front and the rear, depending on which end I decide to put the flashers on...

[trueblue]

To check for an earth to the case, connect the ohm meter from each wire to the case, if they aren't grounded to the case then you will have an infinity reading, if it is grounded it will give you a really low ohm reading on one wire and a slightly higher reading on the other, if this is the case the one with the higher reading will be your power wire and the one with the lower reading is your earth.  Ok, as far as wiring it up goes you want to hook your power wire to the orange/light blue and the other to the green for an earth.  The load equalizer your talking about I assume to be a ballast resistor like you would use with LED's, if it is then connect the purple to orange, brown to light blue and black to green.  I hope this helps

[Smola]

It definitely does! I will try this when I get home.

Just to be clear about the load equalizer...I have read some places to put it in parallel and some places say to put it inline. So when you say to connect a wire from the LE to a signal wire, do I twist the ends and get them in a bullet connector that goes to the orange wire in the harness? Or do I need to connect the wire somewhere else? I'm guessing it doesn't matter since the whole thing is the orange current anyway right?

So if I wanted to connect the signals to the front, do I just leave the light blue/white and orange/white marker wires alone and plug the others up the same way you described?

[Smola]

UPDATE:

I did the ohm test on the turn signal wires and I got two separate readings, neither of which was infinity. Working off the conclusion that the signals are not grounded to the frame, I hooked up the wires as you (trueblue) suggested. I switched the signals to the front (since I currently have no way of attaching them to the rear--mods and all) plugged the wires in with the load equalizer in place, and...same result. =[

My only conclusion is that the issue is in the switch housing as you suggested before. It's strange though because, as you can see from the earlier image I posted earlier, the housing and the connections within look pretty clean. Does that mean I'll need to take apart the housing and inspect all of the connections?

Crap, I really wish I had a second pair of signals to see what happens when four signals are hooked up. I suppose I could go out and purchase a pair but I'd rather not. It's amazing that such a small problem can be so annoying! I need at least one pair of signals on the bike for it to be street legal! What do you think?

[trueblue]

This is really hard with not being able to see the bike, just a thought though, try reversing the wires on the flasher can, some bimetal flashers only work with current going the one direction.  The picture of the hand piece does show it is clean inside, but the contact itself is way up inside there where the wires go to, so the contacts may still be burnt, one easy way to check this is make sure you are getting 12v to the flasher can, if you are, rule out the switch as the culprit for the time being.  The other thing I thought of, do the new flashers have running lights in them, if they do then you may have 2 powers going in and earthed through the case, check for a twin filament bulb.  To be honest I'm starting to run out of ideas.  With wiring up the load equaliser, it doesn't care where in the circuit it is placed, you can even hook it up to the wires for the rear indicators, it needs to be run in parralel, if connected in series they will increase the resistance in the circuit, make your problem worse and not provide the additional current draw you are looking for, basically think of them as another bulb in the circuit that doesn't light up.  Hopefully we can nut this out, because it is really starting to intrigue me.

[Smola]

...try reversing the wires on the flasher can, some bimetal flashers only work with current going the one direction.

I have tried this already and it does not work. The lights won't even light.

...make sure you are getting 12v to the flasher...

I actually checked this last night. The voltage is there, even though it was a bit lower than 12 (about 10.7). I have tested in the recent past right after I've charged the battery with a tender, so I don't think voltage is the problem. I wanted to check amperage, but I think I'm going about it wrong. I didn't have the signal plugged in and had a multimeter connected to the frame and to the orange wire to test for amperage. Turning on the signal blew the 15A fuse  . I guess I'd have to have the signals plugged in and test the amps at that point...

...you may have 2 powers going in and earthed through the case, check for a twin filament bulb.

Checked that last night. It is a single filament, 12V 23W bulb in each signal. And I thought the ohm test would show if the signals ground to the case?

I guess perhaps I will need to unscrew ssome connections in the switch housing and take a closer look? I'm slightly worried because I don't want to futz it up so bad I can't get it back together... 

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really appreciate it!

[trueblue]

No worries mate, I'm just trying to help.  If you have full voltage there where the lights are connected you have enough amps, also if you blew the 15 amp fuse the circuit is capable of carrying over 15 amps, I wouldn't worry about dissassembling the switch at this point in time.  To see how much current is going through a circuit with the bulb still in the circuit you need to unplug one of the wires and connect each wire to the ammeter.  Probably the easiest way to solve this problem at this point is fit a 3 wire electronic flasher can, they flash independant of load on the circuit, I posted in a thread a while back about this, I'll try and dig it up for you.

[trueblue]

Here is the link I said about

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105905.msg1185230#msg1185230

[Smola]

I actually did switch out the flasher for a three-prong flasher several days ago. The issue is still there. I don't have the load equalizer in any more since it isn't necessary. It must be something with the leads in the switch housing, right? I mean, if it's over all the way it must be losing contact with whatever it needs to flash. Moving it back towards center several millimeters gives me the flashing. I am discouraged. =[ haha

[trueblue]

Sounds like you have burnt contacts in the switch, see if you can get your hands on a good switch to try it, as far as I know there is no fix for the contacts, you just need to get "new" ones, they are made of a thin brass sheet pressed into a sort of U shape with 6 prongs hanging out for the contacts, but if you're tricky you can pull good contacts out of a crappy switch body and fit them to a good switch body.

[phil71]

you're overthinking this whole thing. The load balancer can go in the back if you have the space, and the front can hang free (insulated, of course).
OR you could get a fully solid state flasher, a kind that will flash regardless of load. Some even have an adjustment dial to change the speed. If you get a solid left light when you push the switch left, and a solid right flash when you push the switch right, it's NOT the switch, or its grounding. Make sure the orange/white & blue/white are taped off in the bucket. They were for the running lamp.

[Smola]

...OR you could get a fully solid state flasher, a kind that will flash regardless of load. Some even have an adjustment dial to change the speed.

Is the three-prong electronic flasher not considered a "solid state" flasher? I have no idea.

If you get a solid left light when you push the switch left, and a solid right flash when you push the switch right, it's NOT the switch, or its grounding. Make sure the orange/white & blue/white are taped off in the bucket. They were for the running lamp.

The marker wires in the bucket are female so they have that waterproof tubing on the ends. So you're saying it's grounding out some time in between the switch going from the off position to the fully switched position in either direction? Or the circuit is just grounded and is showing it when the switch is fully engaged?

[phil71]

No, I'm not saying it's grounding out at all. It just needs more load, or a flasher unit that will cycle regardless of load.

[trueblue]

No, I'm not saying it's grounding out at all. It just needs more load, or a flasher unit that will cycle regardless of load.

He already has a 3 prong electronic flasher can, which will flash at a steady rate independant of load.  If it was a grounding issue it wouldn't change when he fiddles with the switch.  Given the fact that it starts working when he wriggles the switch a little, it appears to me to be an issue within the switch itself, because in this instance it is the only thing that is changing.

[Smola]

Given the fact that it starts working when he wriggles the switch a little, it appears to me to be an issue within the switch itself, because in this instance it is the only thing that is changing.

So do you think I need to take apart the switch and make sure everything is in order inside?

[phil71]

Ok, Once again, it is NOT THE SWITCH. the reason he gets a small click when fiddling with it is because in a certain position , on its way away from the contacts the switch will introduce a little of its OWN resistance, causing the flasher to let go once in awhile. \
  Also a 3 prong flasher does not mean it's not a bimetal mechanical flasher.  Want proof, hook both lights to one side (blue or orange). I promise you they blink then.

[Smola]

Want proof, hook both lights to one side (blue or orange). I promise you they blink then.

Now THAT sounds like a challenge! Haha I will give that a shot and we will see if it works. I tried this before a little while ago before I got the three-prong flasher and it didn't work. Hopefully it will this time.

So if it still doesn't work, that means the flasher I have is not of the type you are speaking of, correct? In that case, I need the load-equalizer to increase the load on the circuit? Is there any way to test the dual-load equalizer I have with a multimeter to see if it works?

[trueblue]

Moving it back towards center several millimeters gives me the flashing.

This is the line that says to me it is the switch, I had it with mine that it was doing the exact same thing, even with the electronic flasher can, I traced it back to the switch, it looked all shiny inside but when I did a full autopsy on the switch it had burnt contacts in it.  An easy way to locate a fault in the circuit ie. switch or grounds, is use a piece of wire to bypass what you  think is the issue and see if it starts working.  It will take a little nutting out but DC electricity is really easy to follow once you have a basic understanding of it.  I won't try to explain it over the internet, I'll probably only confuse you more.

[Smola]

Put both signals on the same side--one front and one rear. Turned the switch, they both stayed lit. Move the switch slightly back toward center, they started to blink. But THIS time they blinked slower, maybe half the rate they were blinking before. I think this is the rate they SHOULD blink since the former rate was so quick. Will that settle it then? It's something in the switch housing? The leads?

And so does that mean the three-prong electronic flasher is not a "bimetal mechanical flasher?" If so, does that mean I'll need the dual-load equalizer on the circuit? I'm still not sure if the damn thing even works. I don't know how to test it without having it hooked up to the current circuit...

[trueblue]

With it changing rate when you add the extra lights says to me that it is a bi-metal flasher can, which isn't what I was talking about, you need a solid state electronic flasher to get a steady flash rate regardless of load.  To test the load equaliser, you need to connect one lead of your ohm meter to the purple and the other to the black, then to test the other circuit in it, connect the ohm meter to the brown and black, you should get a lowish ohm reading, I'm not sure on the exact reading you would expect.  It is definately sounding like it is in the switch.  My money is on the contacts in the switch either being burnt or dirty.  In the attached image I have marked the points you need to look at, the pink arrow is pointing to the slider which has one set of contacts in it, the green arrows point to the contacts that pink arrow ones connect with, more than likely there is an issue in between these.  It is very rare for the wires themselves to you issues unless someone has fiddled with them.

[Smola]

Hey gents! The problem has been solved and I wanted to share it with you!

So I cracked open the switch housing and cleaned every little piece. It was a tad greasy in there but other than that it looked fine. The leads that look like teeth weren't rusty or dirty and the little copper "clamps" (for lack of a better word) that connect those teeth when the switch is in the various positions were also clean and didn't seem bent or loose in any way. I still cleaned the hell out of all of the parts using some steel wool and a heavy duty shop towel. I re-greased the BBs and applied dome dielectric grease to the teeth and "clamps" before re-assembling the switch. The problem remained.

I disassembled everything again and removed the clamps from the white block that holds them. I put them on the teeth by themselves so I could get a better look at what circuit was allowing the flashers to blink and which one was causing them to stay lit. When the clamps touched the very last tooth on either side, the flashers would stay lit. If I moved them off so they were touching the adjacent 3 teeth to the last tooth, they were blinking. I looked closely at the last tooth on either side. Each one was connected to a brown/blue wire. I pulled out my trusty wiring diagram to figure out what this wire was for: turn signal buzzer. What was the deal with mine? I trashed it a long time ago during the restore. I opened the headlamp and guess what? I still had that wire connected to power just as if the buzzer was still connected. I unplugged the brown/blue wire from the black power wire and voila! Turn signals work perfectly!

Now let this be a lesson to you fellas! A novice asking for help has probably futzed up more than just what he/she is asking for help with. =]

Thanks for all of your help guys!

[trueblue]

I'm glad you got it sorted out, I would never have guessed that it was the buzzer wires causing the issue.  Like I said wiring issues are really hard to sort out without seeing the patient.