Author Topic: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?  (Read 3699 times)

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Offline DrMark

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Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« on: May 11, 2005, 02:29:01 PM »
Hi gang;
I'm wanting to switch to POD Filters for my 1978 CB550K. I've searched thru the archives...not much on the 550s, lots of stories concerning the 750s.

Several web sites selling these items state that for 550's and below, re-jetting is not neccessary. What is your experiences with the 550's? I understand its almost a mandatory requirement to re-jet with the 750's. Any advice will be helpful. Thanks, Dr. Mark
1978 CB550K
1983 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline Gordon

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 03:56:40 PM »
I haven't done pods on a 550, but I have on a 400F and it definitely needed re-jetting.

Offline frostypuck

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 06:24:28 PM »
I put pods on a '78 550, and found I had to run with the choke partially closed. Like pull the knob out maybe a half inch, or else it wouldn't run up to full power on the highway. I could actually feel and hear the difference when the knob would start to slide back down. Yes, before other posts start coming in, carbs were cleaned and new stock size jets, and new ignition system. In fact, the bike always started right up, cold or hot. Exhaust was unmodified 4 into 4.
FWIW, I got my filters from cycle-recycle for around $8 each.
Later,
Chris in Boston
Boston, MA, USA

Offline chippyfive50

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 08:54:57 PM »
I just finished my long winter project putting a 75' 550 motor in my 71' 500 after reading many many recommendations on this vary board. I am still working out the finer points of the tuning, but I have the same pods from cycle re cycle + open pipes. I went up 2  jet sizes(from 100 to 105? I think), and from 38 to 40s on the pilot jets. It idles a  llittle rich, but it RIPS from just over a 1/4 to full throttle. I think I am going to drop the pilots back down to 38's and see what happens. I contemplated dropping the main jets down a notch, but i havent had it on the road long enough to warrant the work,(and my 750k3 is laid up). I havent yet syncd'  the carbs, and the needle is @ factory setting. Without open pipes you may want to start up 1 jet size and feel it out, be perpared to tweak. (I should also mention I hand built and point to point solderd an all  new wiring harness from scratch to accompany the new rectifier, DYNA S igniton, 5ohm coils, and plug wires) which I am sure are MAJOR players in the improvements I have seen. After seeing the old wiring, I can't believe it ran.
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71' 500K0 #1021237--E1108327
78' 550
72' 750K2(sold to "Craig")
74' 750K4 #2306334--E2303422
73' CL175
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Offline Chris Liston

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2005, 05:46:43 AM »
I've had pod filters on my 76 550F since the day I bought it.  Never needed jetting and will get up to 100mph also.  I get only a very very little hesitation between 3-4 grand but thats it, a quick throttle blip and its done. 
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1976 CB550F Cafe in progress
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 07:30:19 AM »
when i got my bike dyno'd the mixture setting was lean between 3-4grand... and was told lifting the needle a clip would fix it... have i done it...no.... i do have a UNI filter in the factory box... and a fee flowing exhaust... and have gone up form 105 to 112.5's... just because it is a smaller motor dont mean it aint gonna run lean.... if in doubt, take it for a ride... constant throttle at you rnormal cruisen speed, then pull the clutch in and shut her down. let it sit then take the plugs out.... if they are a light tan... great, if they are blistered/white... you need to jet up... i have also been told that if the bike wont pull when the taps are screwed open then it probably running lean aswell... non of this will kill the motor, but i would be wary of riding a great distance if i suspected it was lean...its a case of suck it and see... all engines are different, what works for me ,dosent nessessarily meen its right for you... hope this helps..peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 12:27:09 PM »
Pod filters and rejetting?
The short answer is " probably".  But, for those that are curious...

Honda selected the jet and air orifice sizes to operate with the engine as it was delivered from the factory.  Many things contribute to the way the engine breathes: cam timing and lift, valve size, piston bore/stroke, exhaust restriction, and, of course, intake flow characteristics, etc.  The characteristics of each of these items have a profile or rating at each point in the expected RPM band of the engine.  For example the exhaust and intake profile will vary, not necessarily linearly,  and not on any smooth curve.  There can be dips, valleys, or spikes in their flow characteristics.  While each individual device is engineered to provide the best characteristics or the best cost benefit ratio, these components all interact when assembled into a complete machine.  Then the carb metering devices are adjusted (or selected) and tuned to provide the correct fuel/air mixtures for power and economy for each RPM setting.

The CB550s have three fuel metering paths in the carbs.  There are also numerous air metering paths to emulsify the fuel with air before it dumps into the carb bore on it's way to the engine.  These air paths effect the mixture ratios, also.
While all the fuel metering jets have a function at all RPMs, the main jet is selected to provide for the fuel demands at wide open throttle (WOT).  The slide needle taper profile (also depth setting) and slide jet provide for the fuel demands over the midrange RPMs.  And, the pilot or idle jets provide for the fuel demands for low RPM operation.

Few people have much respect for the Honda engineering prowess.  Or so it seems, as people routinely change the bike from it’s stock configuration.  The reasons why are as varied and numerous as the people who perform these changes.  But, it seems the people that understand the total ramifications of the changes they make are very few in number.  And, even fewer of these go on to make the proper adjustments to the machine in total to achieve equal or better overall performance. 
Usually the first things changed are the intake and exhaust.  Whether for looks or cost or just something easy to make the bike look different doesn’t really matter.  But, unless the replacement components have the exact same flow characteristics as stock over the entire operational RPM band, carburetor adjustment and tuning are very likely to be needed.
Honda knew this and made the necessary adjustments.
Between the 1972 CB500 and 1978 CB550, there were 4 carb setups from the factory.  These differences were due to changes in displacement, exhaust type, and completely different carburetors introduced in 77. All these bikes used basicly the same air plenum and air filter before the carbs.  If you look inside that plenum you’ll find a rubber funnel for each carb intake that acts as a velocity stack.  This helps keep the airflow into the carb straight, minimizing turbulence that can cause a notch in the induction flow charateristics, across the RPM band.  The engineers at Honda thought they were important enough to include on the production bike.   Do your pod filters have this velocity stack built into them? 

Can you make changes in your  bike and have the engine still run?
Of course!
Will it run as good as one in the stock configuration?  Possibly.
But, unless you are willing to test for improvement and make other changes to compensate for what you’ve changed,  you’ve got to ask yourself one question.  “Do I feel lucky?”

Well, do you?

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline cb650

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Re: Pod Filters - Re-Jetting needed for 550's and below?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 03:52:20 PM »
Like this subject as I have had totally opposite results. 
On my 650 (81 CV carbs) put a 4-1 header and pods.  Also moved to Denver (5000 ft +) and all the pro machanics said that is fine with stock jets.  Started racing and playing with jets.  Bike kept getting faster with smaller jets. When I went to a track at 1000 ft just went to stock jets.
Meaning you just have to experment.



                          Terry
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker