Author Topic: Swingarm bushings or bearings?  (Read 2898 times)

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Offline thebearded1

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Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« on: August 17, 2012, 12:17:59 PM »
Hello I've got a 1975 CB550 and noticed some play in the swing arm while adjusting the chain the other night.  I figured the bushings/bearings need to be replaced but can't find out what they are.  I've heard Honda Man makes bronze bushings but then i've also seen online a bearing kit for the swingarm, such  as this.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL31-6923

Do these bearings replace the typical bushing?  Any thoughts on whether to use the bearing kit or bushings? Also where might one find bushings?

Thanks!
75 CB550K



bollingball

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 12:25:17 PM »
Remember this thing does not make a full rotation.
Ken



Offline MRieck

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 12:28:42 PM »
Hello I've got a 1975 CB550 and noticed some play in the swing arm while adjusting the chain the other night.  I figured the bushings/bearings need to be replaced but can't find out what they are.  I've heard Honda Man makes bronze bushings but then i've also seen online a bearing kit for the swingarm, such  as this.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL31-6923

Do these bearings replace the typical bushing?
  Any thoughts on whether to use the bearing kit or bushings? Also where might one find bushings?

Thanks!
Yes. They are needle bearings.I'm not going to get involved in the bearing vs bushing conversation. I will say all the modern bikes ( in the last 25 years or so) use needle bearings in the swingarm.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"



Offline CycleRanger

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 01:22:00 PM »
i scored a set of bronze bushings from "twowheelsfrank" in Germany recently.
they were $30 shipped, although I don't see any listings from him on english ebay at the moment.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=110469.0
You might try dropping him an email if you're interested.
The bushings appear to be exactly the same thing Sirius Consolidated and other vendors are selling.
Imho, bronze bushings are more than adequate for these bikes.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 06:40:13 AM »
Hello I've got a 1975 CB550 and noticed some play in the swing arm while adjusting the chain the other night.  I figured the bushings/bearings need to be replaced but can't find out what they are.  I've heard Honda Man makes bronze bushings but then i've also seen online a bearing kit for the swingarm, such  as this.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL31-6923

Do these bearings replace the typical bushing?
  Any thoughts on whether to use the bearing kit or bushings? Also where might one find bushings?

Thanks!
Yes. They are needle bearings.I'm not going to get involved in the bearing vs bushing conversation. I will say all the modern bikes ( in the last 25 years or so) use needle bearings in the swingarm.


My CB750 got needle bearings 1984.  ;)
Next time tapered roller bearings with the Dresda swing.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:43:14 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76 with modified engine.



Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 07:17:06 AM »
I bought a needle bearing kit a few years and installed it in my F2 and it was OK, but I wouldn't do it again, needle roller bearings aren't good for anything more than making money for motorcycle manufacturers spare parts divisions.

The're not good for load bearing, require constant lubrication, wear "flat spots" and ding very easily, and if they get wet, they rust. My neighbour had a Suzuki motocross bike and he liked to clean it with a pressure washer, and managed to destroy all the needle roller bearings in the swingarm and rear suspension linkages in less than 3 years.

Suzuki quoted him 290 bucks to replace them all, so he asked me to replace them with bronze bushes for him, and it cost him 30 bucks for the bronze, and 40 bucks for a bottle of JD for me. He moved 3 years after that, so I don't know how his bike's going now, but I'll bet that the bronze bushes are still working fine.

BMW's always used tapered roller bearings in their swingarms (although I'm not sure if they still do) and you could adjust any "slop" out of them, they're probably the best engineering answer to the swingarm bearing question, but most manufacturers ignored them, due to the cost. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 10:19:51 AM »
Sorry for the threajack, but I need a source for the bronze top hat style bushings at a reasonable price with quick delivery.  Does z1 offer these, or if anyone knows who can get me some in a week or so that would be great!

Much Thanks!



Offline RSchaefer

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 10:51:49 AM »
Ask HondaMan he would be happy to help.  Just search members and send him an email.  He is very responsive!!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 12:09:29 PM »
Maybe these? I do not know the compatibility relative the model years
Swing Arm Bushing Set
http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/cb550/?filters%5Bcategory%5D=chassis&filters%5Bfitting%5D=custom

or here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bronze-Swingarm-Bushing-Kit-Bushings-Honda-CB500-SOHC-K0-K2-CB550-SOHC-F-F2-K3-/160825544842
It might be same as for CB 750 69-78?

I did not have any problem with the needle bearing set I used during 35.000km with my CB750. Most of the km 2 persons with luggage, appr 150kg. (Younger, slimmer). I did not washs the bike that often then and not with high pressure close to any bearings.

Intense high pressure cleaning where the bearings are located is not good, the grease will disappear, fly away and make dirty. :o Same with tapered roller bearings.... I have done that recently during the taking my bike apart process.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 12:16:39 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76 with modified engine.



Offline budlite282

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 12:41:34 PM »
I bought mine form here.........work fine for me.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107716.msg1223965#msg1223965

Just had to eliminate the cushioned washer and plastic one too.

Swing arm and ride feel really good.
If it ain't raining, I'm riding.....~~{iii}?~~prost

If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, it's because I cut and pasted from someone else.


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1974 Honda CB350F1 (in paint)
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2012, 12:58:28 PM »
Thanks for the reply much appreciated.



Offline shinyribs

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2012, 01:04:00 PM »
Sorry for the threajack, but I need a source for the bronze top hat style bushings at a reasonable price with quick delivery.  Does z1 offer these, or if anyone knows who can get me some in a week or so that would be great!

Much Thanks!

eBay.Got mine for $24 shipped. Dont remember the seller,but theyre on there.
The darn fool didn't know it couldn't be done...so he went ahead and did it anyway.

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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 01:18:59 PM »
Sorry for the threajack, but I need a source for the bronze top hat style bushings at a reasonable price with quick delivery.  Does z1 offer these, or if anyone knows who can get me some in a week or so that would be great!

Much Thanks!


Thanks for the tip I got my from Germany too.  $30 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB-750-Four-K0-K1-K2-K6-Schwingenlager-Bronzebuchsen-Swingarm-Bushings-/400301063244?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item5d33cd7c4c

eBay.Got mine for $24 shipped. Dont remember the seller,but theyre on there.



Offline andrewk

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 06:37:38 PM »
Quote
The're not good for load bearing, require constant lubrication, wear "flat spots" and ding very easily, and if they get wet, they rust. My neighbour had a Suzuki motocross bike and he liked to clean it with a pressure washer, and managed to destroy all the needle roller bearings in the swingarm and rear suspension linkages in less than 3 years.

What do you mean?   Needle bearings are designed to be load bearing.  Universal-joints and constant velocity joints in cars and trucks hold up to all kinds of abuse. They're sealed better sure, but your buddy's problem had more do to with pressure washing the motorcycle than it does with the bearings being inadequate for service.

I use bushings in my bike, but that was more a consequence of cost than anything else.  They're (the bushings) plenty stiff and plenty smooth though-  way more than enough for what I'm doing.



Offline queequeg

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 08:14:05 PM »
Hmmm,
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that a CENTER COLLAR that comes with that kit??!!!  I have been turning the whole Internet inside out for days, looking for a new center collar on which to run my new brass bushings for my '78 F.  The original got really pitted on one end.
It looks like I may have just found the solution, since all the collars for the SOHC Supersports appear to have been raptured!



Offline queequeg

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2012, 08:17:20 PM »
errrm, wait a sec- this says the one part# is for A/K/F but don't the different models have different shaft lengths??



Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Swingarm bushings or bearings?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2012, 03:07:30 AM »
What do you mean?   Needle bearings are designed to be load bearing.  Universal-joints and constant velocity joints in cars and trucks hold up to all kinds of abuse. They're sealed better sure, but your buddy's problem had more do to with pressure washing the motorcycle than it does with the bearings being inadequate for service.

I'm yet to see the benefits of needle roller bearings in swingarms mate, can you think of any? I didn't want to labor the point, but I had the same experience as my neighbour with the RM, I've had to replace the needle roller bearings in both of my Suzuki GS1000's, (OEM) they're horribly expensive compared to bushes, and they're an odd size, so you can't buy them from your local bearing supplier, so once stocks are exhausted, it's a case of converting them to bushes, or riding really slow......... 

Yep, needle roller bearing work great in universal joints, and I've never pulled a uni joint apart to find the bearings have turned into rusty brown mud, but I certainly have with needle roller bearings in motorcycle swingarms, and I don't recommend them. Cheers, Terry. ;D
There are two kinds of people in this world, Motorcyclists, and everyone else............

Scooters are for guys who want to ride motorcycles, but still want to feel the wind in their vaginas.........