Author Topic: 78 vs 74 Compatability  (Read 3329 times)

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Offline itsjustme

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78 vs 74 Compatability
« on: September 28, 2012, 06:54:16 AM »
I have a 74 CB750 that I'm fixing up and I found a 78 that I am hoping will supply some parts. My engine is lacking in that it's tapping quite loud, several leaks and has never really run correctly. I'm hoping the engines will swap with little effort. Some other accessories as well but the engine is my main objective.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Offline itsjustme

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 09:43:59 AM »
Not even a "You must be insane if you think that!" response??? lol

Offline andrewk

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 10:51:58 AM »
You're not insane, but there will be a few things you'll need to change up in order to make it work, and there will be plenty of parts on the 78 that won't work for the 74.

Starting in 1977, Honda changed the output shaft of the engine, and offset it 10mm further outboard for clearance issues running bigger chains and fatter tires.  The engine is a direct bolt in, but the chain line will not be straight.  It's pretty easy to correct, however.

You'll have to change sprocket carriers on the rear wheel to make this work properly (use the one from the 78), and it will likely require different axle spacers on the sprocket side.  I cut down one on a lathe, but I'm sure it could be done with careful use of power tools.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112622 is the thread where I fit my early engine to the late frame, and got the driveline set up.  This is the opposite of what you're trying to do, but it should help.

There are a lot of small differences between the K2-K6 bikes and the K7-K8, and even more differences between a K4 and any of the F bikes.

In 1977, the K bikes started using the F style oil tank-  that means slightly different oil lines- you'll want to swap the oil lines from the K4 engine.

Most of the accessories on the later bikes will be different than the early bike.  Fenders are different, brake caliper design changed a bit, different dashboard and gauge setup, etc.  The frames on the late bikes are a bit longer, the seats and tanks don't swap directly either.

Not the best parts bike to get, but parts is parts, as they say.  Good luck- hope this helps!

Offline lucky

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 12:37:15 PM »
That chain alignment will be the biggest modification.
78 engine = 78 sprocket carrier. 1974 swing arm???
I would use the 78 swing arm if you have it.
Recut spacers BUT.... Wheel alignment in the center of the frame is a very important deal. Get the spacers right.

The rear wheel must be centered with the backbone of the frame AND the chain sprockets must line up. at the same time. So the spacers on each side of the wheel must be corrected.

The order of things:
#1 Rear wheel alignment. Use a string from the steering neck down the back bone.
stand in the back of the bike to check.
#2 Chain and sprocket alignment. I use a piece of aluminum angle to check.
#3 Right wheel spacer first, THEN the left spacer.



« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 12:47:36 PM by lucky »

Offline andrewk

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 12:39:36 PM »
You don't have to correct anything with the wheel centerline.  If you leave the spacers the way they're supposed to be on the brake side, then the wheel remains centered in the frame as it's supposed to be.  Changing the sprocket carrier and spacers doesn't change the wheel alignment. Been here, done this.

Offline lucky

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 12:45:31 PM »
You don't have to correct anything with the wheel centerline.  If you leave the spacers the way they're supposed to be on the brake side, then the wheel remains centered in the frame as it's supposed to be.  Changing the sprocket carrier and spacers doesn't change the wheel alignment. Been here, done this.

Deleted.
Make sure you actually check the rear wheel alignment.
Is it in the center?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 12:48:35 PM by lucky »

Offline andrewk

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 01:36:43 PM »
Yup.  It's in the center.  Not rocket science.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 09:32:36 PM »
It's Just Me...CycleX sells a 10mm offset rear sprocket that makes this swap pretty easy
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Toxic

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 04:33:45 AM »
it would be a bonus if the 78 cam with a decent set of carbs.  The 77 and 78 are different

Offline itsjustme

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 08:28:46 AM »
Thanks, just what I needed to know, the other parts on the bike are not worth the effort to go through this as compared to just rebuilding the engine I have. Looking for a cheaper "shortcut"...
For $150 thought it would be worth checking out for the engine and a couple things that he says turns over with "good compression" and creates a spark.
Sounds like by the time I get the other necessary stuff to make it work, I could just fix the issues with mine and come out about even $ wise. More time maybe but mneh...

Thanks again for the detailed replies

Offline lucky

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 09:25:16 AM »
Yup.  It's in the center.  Not rocket science.

Center of what?
The canter of the swing arm, or is it centered with the backbone of the bike?
That is an important distinction.

Offline andrewk

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 11:28:48 AM »
Have you ever done this or are you talking out your a** again?

It's centered in the f*cking backbone dude.  Just like it was when it left Japan.

The sprocket carrier is not part of the hub.  Changing the sprocket carrier does not change the centerline of the wheel, just the drive line. 

Prove that it does or STFU about it.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: 78 vs 74 Compatability
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2012, 11:49:02 AM »
If you stay with the K4 swingarm and the brake-side spacer, the wheel will be centered with the frame and front wheel. The problem is the K4 chainguard won't fit  If you change the swingarm......use the K8 spacers and chainguard.
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