Author Topic: Doing sheet metal work tips, tools..and what not to do...or buy (Read 6001 times)

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **on:** January 15, 2013, 01:15:23 PM »

OK boys, I have been slowly collecting sheetmetal tools. Just picked up a planishing hammer and was seconds away from spending money on a chinese hole punch. It was less than half the price of the Roper Whitney one that drew me in. I want to get into doing aircraft solid rivets. bla bla How hard is it to make a slip roll?
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Best frigging Disney film I have ever seen.

I have the planishing hammer and a bead roller....just need to punch holes and join. The projects will be primarily using .03"-.0625" aluminum.

Anybody have some decent sheetmetal hand tools they would like to trade for new side covers?

Stev-o · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2013, 06:19:56 PM »

No, I just have whiskey...

Don R · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2013, 04:44:26 AM »

Animation of how to pinstripe, there was an older one from the 50's but this is similar.
Far out pinstriping animation!

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2013, 07:05:31 AM »

I tried doing pinstriping for a while...just bad. I can get one side nice but could never get it symetrical. Lost interest in it before having time to practice practice practice. Gave the kit to a buddy that does tattoos and - dude fricking nailed it his first time. Now I give him stuff to pinstripe and get it for free. nice....what does this have to do with sheetmetal work? either way cool DonR. thanks for the vid.

Don R · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »

Nothing, just the Disney animation. An english wheel looks like fun. Jesse James says it you use it just right you can make blood squirt out of your thumb.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2013, 11:19:21 AM »

If you are REALLY going to do sheetmetal work you will need a STRETCHER/SHRINKER. You can purchase either foot operated or air. Buy you a English wheel KIT from HF. Both of these take PRACTICE and lots of it to get it right!!!
45 years of AIRCRAFT experience.
Rivet guns and sets come in various sizes and power.
3x=22caliber 9x=105 HOWITZER A 3x will work for what you will be doing but I would recommend a 4x= will set the rivets faster with less beats from the gun!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2013, 02:55:48 PM »

I just got a whitney #5 hand punch with all of the dies. I think the next tool I want will be one of those flange tools. Prob just make one. I was also thinking of making up a kit so I can convert my planishing hammer in to an English wheel. Found a cast iron 6" top wheel but just need to get my hands on the lower anvil part. Either way.....I still havent even bought my sheet stock. What is the best aluminum gauge to work with for curves?

754 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2013, 10:15:37 PM »

For what? Fender.,tank. seat base, air cleaner, sidecovers.,tailpiece...etc..

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2013, 05:44:33 AM »

754, that is what I need to know also!!!If it will be a part that will be under a lot of stress ie, seat pan, you can use almost any gauge you want BUT don't use 7075t-6 too hard/brittle. Use 2024t-3.
You will find , the tighter the bend radius/curve the thinner gauge you'll have to use. I've been able to do a double curve on an aircraft wing panel with .063 T-3 it was a large radius rolled on an ENGLISH wheel. For your knowledge , they make more than ONE size radius roller for the ENGLISH wheel, the smaller the wheel the smaller/tighter the radius.,and the amount of pressure you apply to the radius wheel also comes into play.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

754 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2013, 07:41:01 PM »

If you used 7075, how would you weld it?

I would use .040, or .060 for fender....060 for gas tank, .090 for oil tank....... I am talking aluminum

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2013, 06:06:09 AM »

I want to make seat cowls/bodywork. I have a vision in my head of a CR750 style fairing done in aluminum with flush rivets. I just got a new Eastwood Mig175 with the spool gun for welding aluminum but it says "not for welding under 1/8". Dont really know what to do yet, just trying to get my hands dirty and learn some new tricks.

So then what is the best grade aluminum for bodywork? 7075? My only experiance with aluminum has been cutting and drilling 6061 1/4" sheets. This hammer forming stuff is all new.

754- that little milling machine is going to be eventually rebuilt out of aluminum. I had to add so many braces and clamps to keep the X,Y axis stable...the frigging thing is a permanant fixture on my surface plate.

2013 is going to be the year of drinking Scotch and shaping alloy.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2013, 08:36:25 AM »

Most of the time we could only get 6061 aluminum welded due to the composition of METALS in 7075 or 2024. They can be welded but we didn't due to AIRCRAFT structure and FAA rules.
If you are fabbing a fairing you can probably get away with using .080 T-3 since it will be rolled (ENGLISH WHEELED) in a fairly large radius. You also need to know there are DIFFERENT strength rivets.. designated by letter codes
A= softest
DD= hardest ( also known as ICE BOX rivets) these are heated to a specific temp to anneal/soften them ,then kept in a freezer till you are ready to use and even then you MUST keep them COLD with DRY ICE and ALCOHOL until the moment you stab one in the hole and set it.
I would recommend using D rivets, strong and easily set!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2013, 09:15:48 AM »

wow. where do you use such rivets? or where are they specified for? I am not going to be doing anything that needs strength but DANG, that is some great info.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2013, 01:52:50 PM »

Most of the DD rivets were used in the HIGH STRUCTURAL STRENGTH areas of the aircraft ie, KEEL BEAM area(belly skin), wing, engine pylons. They were real FUN to work with, if you didn't get it bucked properly and went back to rework the bucktail, the rivet would crack because you WORK HARDEN it as you set it.
Loved working on aircraft, did it for 45 years!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

754 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2013, 02:04:21 PM »

If the fairing has a long slender piece alongthe bottom you may want at least .080.
Basically the finer your work the thinner you can be, but thicker allows more room for error, and requires less work. Planishing, if you want to sand and blend to finish..

I havent really done hands on except little bits,but have done a truckload of research, and discussed the subject numerous times with Goldammer. Also got to see a lot of his in progress stuff, and had a lot of the why and how he did it a certain way explained to me..

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2013, 05:40:28 PM »

When you use the ENGLISH wheel you have to think of the metal as a piece of paper that you are going to fold(ROLL) on two tangent lines. When you start rolling the metal on the longest line (in the middle) you will notice the metal start to roll down on each side. If you had the lines in a V shape with the bottom of the V centered on one end and the points of the top of the V at the opposite end corners and rolled back and forth staying in that V the metal will start to look like a spoon. PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE before you start on your actual fairing metal!!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

scottly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2013, 06:23:40 PM »

5052 is better for forming. 6061 needs to be annealed before even slight bending, or it will form stress fractures. Even 5052 will work harden, and may need to be annealed more than once, depending on how much you are forming it.
Someone posted this link to a DIY English Wheel a while back, and I book-marked it, thinking one day I would build one..
http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/12ewheel.html

754 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2013, 07:58:16 PM »

I think you can order 6061. In 0 temper.... But unless max strength is needed 3003 may be used more..

FrankenFrankenstuff · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2013, 08:06:25 PM »

That is a great link Scottly. I never thought of using bearings.

scottly · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2013, 08:53:29 PM »

I just happened to have a couple of those bearings with the radiused outer races. One of these days.
Here is a sample of simple "hydro-forming". This was done with 18 gauge steel. The "dies" are lead, and there was a 2" layer of rubber pushing the steel over the dies. I don't recall how much pressure was used, but it was done on a modified Harbor Freight type press.

754 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 19, 2013, 09:47:20 PM »

I have a new self aligning bearing that is about 2 3/8 wide x 8inches Od..figured it might be good for a wheel

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2013, 05:53:02 AM »

The problem with any aluminum in "0" temper it is very soft and malleable. If he uses "0" makes it real easy to form but then he'd have to HEAT-TREAT the complete fairing at one time to have a consistent temper. If he don't H/T, the wind by itself will fold it back like TIN FOIL.
Didn't use much 5052 in commercial aviation, used it in the NAVY.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

754 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2013, 08:59:26 AM »

Wait a second, every time you anneal it, you go back to 0 ..correct?
Then asyou work it, it gets harder as you work it?.. Or am I way off base here?

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2013, 07:08:27 PM »

As you English wheel it will stretch the metal in the direction of the rolls and cause the metal to thin out. It does harden it SOME as you work it but "0" temper is VERY soft, you can take .090 "0" and bend it to 90 degrees over the edge of a toolbox with a deadblow hammer but it is still soft and not good for load bearing as for a support bracket. If it was me , IMHO I'd use T-3 and install stiffener brackets.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Raef · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2013, 08:04:23 PM »

I am rusty, since the house fire, I haven't touched a piece of aluminum, i had made several seats and a few tanks. my english wheel is home made, planishing hammer is harbor freight, bead roller is eastwood don't remember what my break and roll are. I have a shrinker and stretcher, use it some in automotive but have never used it on aluminum.

I have use some 6160 and it is very hard to move, i buy most of my metal off the drop rack by the pound and try to buy anything under 4043 series anything higher i heat it before and while forming. as for welding it I use a oxy- acydaline torch and stick welding rods 4043's

I have some pics on hear somewhere

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Author Topic: Doing sheet metal work tips, tools..and what not to do...or buy (Read 6001 times)