Author Topic: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer  (Read 23869 times)

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Offline Powderman

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XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« on: May 10, 2013, 05:08:13 PM »
Got the seat back from the upholsterer. All I need is for the l slowest engine builder on earth to get my motor back and then it's off to Ohio for an LSR.
I've been playing with the CB400f build elsewhere on this forum while waiting to get the motor back so I can complete this 35 year project.





Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 05:23:21 PM »
Subscribed.... ;)
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Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 07:17:02 PM »
Powderman where are you. ?  Got a couple guys here in town that race at Bub and one from this forum Dennis races there..is that a Sporty or. XR frame looks like md 70 + swingarm..
.snowflakes...lucky dog...
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 09:33:15 PM »
Forgive me, but what is Bub?
This bike started as a 1962 XLCH Sportster. I acquired a set of prototype XR style heads from Alan Sputhe in 1976. These were 1st. gen heads before he started making 1290cc cylinders and heads for the iron head Sportster. Last time I spoke with Alan he told me my heads might be one of maybe 10 sets in the world. I found 2 sets on bike in N.H. and 4 on bikes in Alan's showroom. In an exhaustive internet search I have not found any others. I raced this bike as a semi stock motored cafe racer in the mid/late 70's in the Mulholland Canyon/Rock Store area before getting serious and wanting to build an XR for street/race. Here I am at 23 with it in 76:



My landlord at the time owned House Of Horsepower in Canoga Park,Ca., A big cubic inch Harley Davidson engine builder, and wanted to build it for me. This motor is his genius. We started by cutting the stock frame off just above the front and rear motor mounts and threw away 27lbs of cast crap and replaced it with a purpose built frame adding only 9lbs of chromoly tubing, saving 18lbs of top end weight. That was the being of the weight saving formula. Nothing went on the bike if it didn't make it go fast or stop short. Iron heads and cylinders got replaced with big bore (from 53 to 63 ci)aluminum units (another 25lbs), tossed the generator in the trash (another 13lbs.). The magneto was now mounted in the generator hole just like the XR race bike and I would now run total loss electrical system to run the necessary lights and just recharge after a few hours. The 8lb Kimtab Snowflakes I had bought from Kimtab the day they went bankrupt in 76, I own the last pair out the factory doors in a, probably, illegal transaction. I had a friend who was in the race brake business in the mid 90's that started the Hawg Halter company making after market bolt on caliper for H-D's and I adapted a set onto my bike giving me phenominal stopping power with 3-4 piston calipers to mate to the triple 12" rotors. All said and done the bike weighs in at a paltry 360lbs. Here it is in 1977 when I ran out of money and life and responsibilities got in the way and it got shuffled to the back burner for the next 35 years:


 In 2011 A friend of mine started to build a car for Bonneville after a full deal with Toyota to build an LSR truck fell through. He pulled out his 1959 Nash Metropolitan to build instead. I walked in one day and saw 2- 3"x4"X6' steel frame rails laying on the floor. I asked what they were and he said " It's my Nash Metropolitan Bonneville car, can't you tell?" I started asking him if could help with the project and if he would let me coat some stuff for it and put my name on it  I'd be stoked. He said "Sure"  Well long story short he needed help badly if he intended on making Bonneville that Aug. So he and I dived in and with occasional help from a few others we completed the car at around noon after painting the nose on the day we were leaving for the Salt Flats 2-1/2 months after staring at those 2 frame rails on the floor. He has less than $30k in the car and when we got there we broke a 14 year old record at over 261mph, doing what many engineers with deep pockets and 20 years on the salt said would be impossible. We left them scratching their heads on how TF we did it. We then took the car to the ECTA Maxton Mile in N.C in their last event before they closed that venue and set new class record there. We then took it to the New ECTA track, the Ohio Mile in Lexington, Ohio and were the first 200mph club member there. We've since been back to the salt where we broke our record and now hold it at 265+. It has set world record at every venue it has been to. It had always been on my bucket list to attend Bonneville as a spectator. I checked that off the list as a Bonneville World Record Holder crew chief. This car has been one of the most photographed and admired car out there. It's been in Hot Rod a couple of times, Popular Hot Rodding and a number of others. It was on the front of the official Tshirt for Bonneville 2012. It's picture is the heading of the Comp Coupe class in the rule book for SCTA and it's the car pictured when you go to the ECTA 2013 website schedule for cars:



 Well right about now I am thinking " Bob gets all the credit and I do the work and get jack chit. It's time to see if I can get my name in the record books. I came home and checked the record for my class of bike and found that there had been no attempts in that class yet and still after 5 events no record attempts. I figured it was time to sell the NASCAR circle track car I had been racing until they outlawed me and changed the rules because I was "too competitive". So it time to get serious and go set a record. I can go down the track at 50mph and set a record but that's not what I want. I want to put a a legitimate number up on the boards and think I can beat the class above me record of 131mph in the mile.






So out came the XR to complete and try for a record. Looks like the July 6-7 event is when it will happen, one day before my 60th birthday. I found a sponsor to help me get it fired for the first time since 1977. Long story short we were ready to fire it when we found no spark in the magneto, seems after 35 years of sitting the earth magnets lose their charge and have to be recharged. At first I was concerned about what the cylinders and rings looked like after being "dry" for 3 5 years and I just pictured masses of rust in the bores. We pulled a plug and stuck a bore scope in to see and my eyes were amazed to see cross hatch honing like it was done yesterday. I was a happy camper. That is until I pulled the cam cover to get the magneto out. Down in the oil sump you could see oxidation of the aluminum cases like barnacles. If we had fired the motor that gunk would have gone through and destroyed the motor. So now I was looking a t complete teardown, cleaning and reassembly. $1500, there goes my money to make the Sept 12 event. Well the motor guy tore the motor down and I sent all the aluminum pieces off for vapor blasting. When he tore it down he called and said it was ready and that he didn't want to burst my bubble but I did not, in fact, have a 63 ci motor. I said please tell me that guy didn't lie to me and screw me. He said " Not unless you consider 81ci getting screwed." The original builder failed to tell me he also threw in a big stroker kit bumping it to a whopping 1327cc. He has had my motor now since end of June last year. I'm starting to get pissed. I have missed 2 events waiting on him and have sponsor obligations to up hold. Here is what she looks like now without the heart in it:


Feel free to fire off any questions you may have. I love talking about my baby.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 07:51:27 AM by Powderman »

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 09:48:02 PM »
Powderman where are you. ?  Got a couple guys here in town that race at Bub and one from this forum Dennis races there..is that a Sporty or. XR frame looks like md 70 + swingarm..
.snowflakes...lucky dog...

I'm in Dawsonville, Ga. Home of Bill Elliott, 1988 Winston Cup Champion. I didn't mention in the long story but the swing arm is a 1979 Sportster unit. The only year boxed swing arm that will bolt to the early 62 frame. Frame is a modified Sportster unit.

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 09:50:21 PM »
That is very cool..Do you remember the 10 sec. Sputhe bike in the Cycle World test?
 There is a a Thunderhead Sporty in town here. One of the bikes here thst runs At Bub (bonneville bikes only) has 155 plus Hp on a carburated V twin..
 Who owned HoH.. Seems they made HD replacement cases for a short time. I used to import a lot of HD stuff from the LA. Area the eighties...dealt with a lot of people there. Do you rememberDragbike Engineeering in Redondo.. Artesia Blvd.
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

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73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 10:43:29 PM »
That is very cool..Do you remember the 10 sec. Sputhe bike in the Cycle World test?
 There is a a Thunderhead Sporty in town here. One of the bikes here thst runs At Bub (bonneville bikes only) has 155 plus Hp on a carburated V twin..
 Who owned HoH.. Seems they made HD replacement cases for a short time. I used to import a lot of HD stuff from the LA. Area the eighties...dealt with a lot of people there. Do you rememberDragbike Engineeering in Redondo.. Artesia Blvd.

I am well aware of Vance Breese's Sputhe bike. I have 2 issues of that Cycle world magazine in front of me from July 1980. If my responsibilities had not gotten in the way that might have been my bike featured, oh well. H of H was owned by Clell Richards and just after I left the state in 80 or so I recall he was making after market cases and then it was taken over by his kid Greg. I searched for Clell for 20 years trying to get info to help me finish this and I finally found him about 6 months ago. Unfortunately I got his wife on the phone who informed me he is now 77 years old and in the advanced stages of alzeihmers and in a home where he doesn't recognize anyone. I so wanted him to see the fruits of his labor after all these years and to let him know it was not in vain.
Don't remember DBE. Used to hang with guys like Jerry Magnusson, Gary Bang, Sonny Raz.
 I was up in the San Fernando Valley, stayed away from south of there.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 10:46:09 PM by Powderman »

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2013, 01:36:57 AM »
Powderman, it's cool to put 2+2 together and realize that your CR.net build thread has taught me to appreciate Harley's...waiting to hear more about the dual carb set-up and what you may have done to improve the notoriously(possibly a myth?) fragile ironhead tranny
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 07:34:31 AM »
Did You mean Sonny Razlawzki ?. To bad he checked out early..
So did you get to ride the Magnacycle.. They were feeeking cool..
I was a Bang dealer..met him at Del Mar in 86 .. He had the coolest parts van with the. Mural or sign for his grandpas original shop on it..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 08:53:03 AM »
Powderman, it's cool to put 2+2 together and realize that your CR.net build thread has taught me to appreciate Harley's...waiting to hear more about the dual carb set-up and what you may have done to improve the notoriously(possibly a myth?) fragile ironhead tranny
It certainly is no myth if you ever had one making power you soon found out how weak they were. It's not the tranny itself but the mainshaft bearing boss in the cases. After talking with Alan Sputhe about my record attempts the first thing he asked me was whether I was running a cush drive to protect the tranny for just the reason you mentioned. Cush drive on a  Sporty? So he headed me in the right direction to fit a Jap bike rear wheel with cush drive. I ended up with a Ninja250r 16" rear wheel with cush drive that I will run backwards. The H-D swing arm isn't wide enough to accommodate anything wider without clearance issues. When you start putting big power to cases that housed a tranny for 38hp it has a tendency to break the main shaft boss. Cush drive eases this power transfer. One fix was to machine the thin walled boss and have an aluminum sleeve that was about 3/4" thick welded around it strengthening it. I was not surprised when we took the motor apart that Clell had already made that fix to my motor.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 09:00:48 AM by Powderman »

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 08:58:31 AM »
Did You mean Sonny Razlawzki ?. To bad he checked out early..
So did you get to ride the Magnacycle.. They were feeeking cool..
I was a Bang dealer..met him at Del Mar in 86 .. He had the coolest parts van with the. Mural or sign for his grandpas original shop on it..

It was a test for you when I said Raz and not his whole last name. You past. Yes it was Sonny Razlawski. Clell took my project on right after Sonny passed. Clell build all Sonny's stuff. I was surprised when I moved to Ca. from Ct. in 1975 to find a bunch of these "Big" parts suppliers who had big ads in the magazines were actually 1000sf garage shops.

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2013, 09:23:35 AM »
 A good trapdoor and a few Andrews gears never hurt.. My thought is that. There is no room for stuff to go anywhere when parts fail ...but the racers running 2 or 3 gears have a better chance due to more room in there...... I remember using the bent spoke to check end play, and shims from Bang.. Still got that cone shaped tool to put the clip on a shaft.. Do you need one..?
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2013, 10:37:13 AM »
I run custom Sifton cams because the rear cylinder now runs backwards. Don't need the tool as I have someone else doing the motor work so I don't screw anything up.

Offline 754

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Sonny the Fast Polack..
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2013, 11:59:23 AM »
Man sonny was in the NINES back in 1970  :o
 Think he is in these pics
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 12:02:20 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2013, 11:59:54 AM »
Chapman Frame ?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 12:03:39 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 12:05:19 PM »
 At the digs...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 02:29:20 PM »
Ohio Mile results have just been posted and a record set in my class. I now have a benchmark of 125.52mph to beat. Looks like a Buell with a 50t rear sprocket set record. I am guessing it was in complete street trim with that gearing and with my gearing for the mile will be able to surpass that mark.

Offline dusterdude

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 07:03:16 PM »
Hold on,a sportster?,thats a harley isnt it?no way it could run that fast.lol,thats #$%*in cool,way to go dude
mark
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Offline scottly

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 07:10:12 PM »
I knew a guy from Ridgecrest, CA with a 10 second iron head Sportster..
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Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2013, 12:34:25 PM »
This is getting really frustrating. After 11 months with my motor he has it back together but now says the pistons are hitting the valves. He is trying to figure out what to do to fix it. He mentioned stroker plates under the cylinders or new pistons. I think machining the face of the piston would be the easiest fix. Any thoughts from you guys? At least he sent me pics of it and it does look sweet after all the vapor blasting, but I would much rather hear it make noise than look good. Right now all I have still is a very expensive boat anchor.



« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:38:02 PM by Powderman »

Offline 754

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 07:28:07 AM »
You have to weigh out your options.. At least in your case,you dont have to hunt for a wider. Manifold if you use the plates.  Take a good look at piston crown thickness, before you start cutting
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 07:41:04 AM »
You have to weigh out your options.. At least in your case,you dont have to hunt for a wider. Manifold if you use the plates.  Take a good look at piston crown thickness, before you start cutting

That's the first thing he is going to do. That is after I question him making sure he has the cam timing correct. This thing has 11:1 compression ratio so I imagine it has a healthy dome on them.

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2013, 08:05:56 AM »
I'm not sure but I am searching the answer. My motor was built using no base gaskets and an interference fit head where no gaskets are used. The cylinder sleeve protrudes into the head and uses no gasket. this I understand. Why no base gasket on the cylinder is used is what I don't understand. He obviously had a reason for doing it. We need .060" clearance, a base gasket should get most of that if not all. If it needs to be hard mounted I have access to a waterjet table and all I need is a base gasket and some .060 aluminum and I can make my own stroker plates. adding the .060" this way will lose me a point in compression dropping it to 10:1.

Offline Powderman

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2013, 09:52:16 AM »
The issue has been cleared up. After determining the piston dome was not thick enough for reliefs cut in them I decided the stroker plate option was best. I contacted Cometic who agreed to sponsor them to me as long as I paid shipping. They should be at the motor builder by today or Mon. Hopefully I will be able to pick up the motor by the end of the week.
I just realized I will have to shave some off the top spacer at the top motor mount.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: XR1327 LSR Sportster Cafe Racer
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 12:02:40 AM »
I've just found this, what a cool project! I always wanted an XR750 Road Racer, and your bike should be an absolute beast. All the best mate, and keep us updated! Cheers, Terry. ;D
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