Topic: Relays

[74750k4]

How many are using them? Are they a reliable solution, or just one more part to go bad???

[bjbuchanan]

I'm using two for hi and know headlight and one for ignition coils. Relays are very reliable. They aren't supposed to be used Instead of laziness in cleaning up your harness tho. I have some lower duty aftermarket switches on my bike along with a custom harness too

[74750k4]

You are saying I'm lazy, and my harness is dirty Keep the humor coming!!!

All relays are not created equal. Yes, I was cheap, and lazy, to not install good quality relays.

[shark]

I am using a relay to get around a electrical problem.

Short version: In addition to having a voltage drop problem, the bike wouldn't charge the battery. Clean this, clean that, clean the other thing. Headlight was brighter, voltmeter (many different ones) still  showed a voltage drop.  Ended up installing a new voltage regulator, battery is now overcharging (battery voltage was something like 16 volts, regulator was sensing 12).

I just got fed up. Installed a relay to switch battery voltage from hot side of starter solenoid to the voltage regulator. Battery charges just fine now, bike can be used.

Proper repair--NOPE.

Did it work--YEP.

Will I try to properly repair the problem? Eventually. I needed backup transportation, and this got the bike back on the road.

[bjbuchanan]

I just mean you should try to clean the harness up good and then worry about relays. A relay you need to use should only be like 5 bucks anyway just gotta hook em up properly

Clean up what you can with steel wool, not sandpaper so you don't take precious meat off of the bullets and then implement the relays just so you know you covered your @ss

[74750k4]

"For maximum contact life, the arc should be suppressed
as quickly as possible as soon as it ignites."

http://relays.te.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3236.pdf

When Dyna 3 ohm coils get shut off..  trust me, there is an ARC! A BIG one!


Failure of these relays can cause any number of conditions ranging from delayed or cancelled flights, smoke in the cockpit or, in extreme cases, in-flight fires.
http://naasco.com/articles/articledisplay.php?a=power_relay_maintenance

[74750k4]

So I should clean my harness with steel wool. Sounds like a plan!

[KRONUS0100]

i built the new harness on my 76 750f and used 4 relays......hi beam, lo beam, horn, ignition coils

[74750k4]

I have 6 total relays....

3 on each bike Hi/Low Beams/Ignition.
Never had a horn issue yet, but  guess I could add in another possible source of problems...


But maybe if I just polish my bullets it's all good.

[bjbuchanan]

Get a small rifle bore brush to clean the inside of the female bullets. If you wanna go hard de-pin your connectors polish up all the contacts. Difference is really great

I didn't bother with a horn relay because I rarely if ever use one. In emergencies I concentrate on the road only. screw the horn that is one more thing to do instead of avoid a hazard. A little beep at a light here or there maybe

[74750k4]

Well even better... why cheap out???  Buy a whole BAG of the little fellers like I did, and replace every single one of those pesky little 40 year olds. Make sure you buy the proper crimper for them too.

[74750k4]

electromechanical relay contacts tend to fail "open." In either case, it is possible for a relay to fail in the other mode, but these are the most common failures. Because a "fail-open" state is generally considered safer than a "fail-closed" state, electromechanical relays are still favored over their solid-state counterparts in many applications.


Derating of continuous current is dependent upon the load type and is shown in Table 3. Derating is more severe for inductive (read DYNA 3 Ohm Coils) and filament loads, due to high current demands upon initial startup and increased propensity of voltage spikes.

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nswc/crane/sd18/Public%20Documents/ProductArchive/Relays.pdf

[KRONUS0100]

 I was going to put something else on that relay and when i got to it i couldnt remember what it was, so the horn got it.  I still dont recall what was supposed to go on there, dumbass me forgot to write anything down when i built the harness, let alone take pictures of the process.

[mono]

I am using a relay to get around a electrical problem.

Short version: In addition to having a voltage drop problem, the bike wouldn't charge the battery. Clean this, clean that, clean the other thing. Headlight was brighter, voltmeter (many different ones) still  showed a voltage drop.  Ended up installing a new voltage regulator, battery is now overcharging (battery voltage was something like 16 volts, regulator was sensing 12).

I just got fed up. Installed a relay to switch battery voltage from hot side of starter solenoid to the voltage regulator. Battery charges just fine now, bike can be used.

Proper repair--NOPE.

Did it work--YEP.

Will I try to properly repair the problem? Eventually. I needed backup transportation, and this got the bike back on the road.

Any in depth description/instructions for us electrical dummies?  Sounds like a good thing to know. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[bjbuchanan]

I feel you on that Kronus, I managed to 'misplace' my wiring harness book/setup. Needless to say I was unhappy

74cb, I have the proper crimper along with a whole connection kit from vintage connections.com    It is real nice I just thought you were doing the down and dirty deal.

[MCRider]

There are people who sell relay kits/harnesses already made up. I got the one for my horns from Eastern Beaver. Dual Relay for the Hlight from HondaMan. Fits in stock headlight shell. little more than unplug the headlight, plug in the relays with short jumpers provided, and button it up.

HondaMan also sells a transistorized booster pack for the stock points ignition, which I think is essentially a glorified relay. (?) OCICBW about that.

I'm using little mini horns which are really loud with the relays. I have HLight relay with OEM sealed beam on my Hawk, very impressive iprovement. On the CB, I've got the H4 conversion with relays. Set the trees on fire.

[74750k4]

Nope, I wouldn't do that deal, got better things to do, and why should I, when all it was, was a popped top off the relay holding the contacts closed??? Sometimes you can get lucky with guesses, but most of the time analyzing the circuit, brings you to the answer.

[phil71]

When you kill (+) to the coils through the relay they shouldn't cause an arc in the relay.

[74750k4]

Actually...  it should. The laws of inductance would be broken if it didn't. 
Do an experiment, try it. Study inductance.

[phil71]

I have, and unless your condensers are shot, the only place those coils should discharge are on the HT side. If that were the case you'd burn up the handlebar switch in no time.

[shark]

I am using a relay to get around a electrical problem.

Short version: In addition to having a voltage drop problem, the bike wouldn't charge the battery. Clean this, clean that, clean the other thing. Headlight was brighter, voltmeter (many different ones) still  showed a voltage drop.  Ended up installing a new voltage regulator, battery is now overcharging (battery voltage was something like 16 volts, regulator was sensing 12).

I just got fed up. Installed a relay to switch battery voltage from hot side of starter solenoid to the voltage regulator. Battery charges just fine now, bike can be used.

Proper repair--NOPE.

Did it work--YEP.

Will I try to properly repair the problem? Eventually. I needed backup transportation, and this got the bike back on the road.

Any in depth description/instructions for us electrical dummies?  Sounds like a good thing to know. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Sorry for the late response, wasn't near a computer all weekend.

What I remember is using a old fuel pump relay.

Black wire from voltage regulator energizes the coil. Other side of the coil goes to ground.

Ran a fused wire (forget what gauge or what size fuse I used) from the hot side of the starter solenoid to one side of the normally open contact . Ran a wire from the other side of the contacts to the black terminal of the voltage regulator.

I can take some pictures and get a better description if you want.

This link gives more information on the relay contact identification: 

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/images/1098relay.jpg

Keep in mind, this was whipped together with crap I found in the garage, it's no work of art

[bollingball]

Nope, I wouldn't do that deal, got better things to do, and why should I, when all it was, was a popped top off the relay holding the contacts closed??? Sometimes you can get lucky with guesses, but most of the time analyzing the circuit, brings you to the answer.

Not sure who or what this is directed at Maybe something was deleted.
Ken

[74750k4]

When your ignition relay contacts open, the path of least resistance is going to be the small air gap created when the contacts first open, nothing to do with charging the .22uF capacitor. If the points are closed (good chance), then there is just the coil and power to it in the circuit. The connnection is made from coil to ground through the closed points leaving the shorted capacitor totally OUT of the equation. The same reason points degrade, only WORSE! Additionally, the capacitor only reduces the arcing for points, it does not ELIMINATE it, that's why points arc, and eventually wear out too. The points capacitor has nothing to do with switching power (black/white wire) off to the coil circuit. If your points are open when you shut off the relay (less chance), you're good to go, no arc. More studying, less guessing.

[phil71]

So, if you know everything, why are you asking what any of us think about relays?

[74750k4]

I personally find knowing more, is discovering just how very little we actually do know. The amount of undiscovered realities is far greater than the sum of all our collective revelations. It's fun to learn, and that is what makes, and keeps life interesting! So anyone who says they know it all, surely is one.