testy

Author Topic: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP  (Read 115061 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« on: August 08, 2006, 09:58:13 pm »
EDIT: For the most up-to-date information, go HERE

When I first got my bike the rotor was shorted and the regulator was shot. I replaced my rotor a while back, but have been driving without a functioning regulator. Just the other day I boiled my battery and fried my rectifier and rotor. Me being the tightwad that I am, I thought there must be an alternative to the $100 aftermarket R/R or the extremely expensive RR from the dealer. I was right. I went to Advance Auto Parts and got a regulator for a mid-70s Ford pickup for $13. Mine came from a '76 F150.

It has 5 wire connections:
A+ -- Battery +
F --   Field 1
S --   Not Used
I --   Ignition
Case - Ground


Let's re-examine the connections on the various regulators. Forget the letters.

One forum member's regulator is labeled "I A S F"
My regulator is labeled "A F S I"

The letters are meaningless if this is truly how they are labeled.

Just go from left to right; they are made to plug into the original Ford wiring harness which won't change even though the letters apparently do.

From left to right with the terminals facing you:
1 - Battery (+)
2 - Field
3 - N/A
4 - Ignition
Case - Ground / Battery (-)


It's really easy to wire up. The F terminal goes to one of the two field wires (brush wires to the rotor). The other field wire goes to ground. "I" goes to your switched power and A goes straight to battery voltage. You want to ground the case somehow.

There is one problem with using this regulator, however. It has no rectifier built in. I built my own rectifier using two of these:

http://guerte.en.alibaba.com/product/50065741/50345579/6A_75A_Square_Bridge_Rectifiers/Square_Bridge_Rectifier.html



Alternately, you could simply use one of these:

http://guerte.en.alibaba.com/product/50065741/50297999/6A_75A_Square_Bridge_Rectifiers/Three_Phase_Bridge_Rectifier.html



Wiring the rectifier is a lot simpler than it looks. The three wires that come out of the alternator are three-phase AC power. The rectifier will convert this power to DC.

Just to make it simple, I'll use the three-phase rectifier from above as an example. Three of the lugs will be labeled with a "~" which denotes AC power. The output of your alternator goes directly to these three lugs. The "-" lug goes to the "-" terminal of your battery and the "+" goes to the positive terminal. Since the regulator varies the output directly from the alternator, this is all you need to do with the rectifier.

I've installed this system in my '79 CB650 and it works great. The charge voltage is right at 13.3v, and it'll charge from 1500rpm and up. You'll never have to worry about burning your headlight bulbs or overcharging your battery because the electronic regulator keeps the voltage perfectly constant. Also, since it charges at 13.3v instead of 14.4v, you don't have to worry about boiling your battery in the summer time. Plus, the two rectifiers that I used are $0.44 apiece and the regulator was only $13. That puts my R/R budget to $13.88. Much better than the $100 I would've spent on the 'net or the $250 from Honda!!



Quote from: scottly
When I hooked it up on the bench according to the OP's method (after first testing it with the method I have suggested) I saw wisps of smoke within seconds from the surface-mount resistors in series with the "I" terminal. When the reg detects a non-charging condition, it applies ground to this terminal in order to light the indicator. The resistance of the lamp limits the current to as safe level. No lamp=smoke.
You MUST ground the reg case (this should be the first connection made), and you have to add a wire from the A term straight to Batt+ (this wire actually carries the current to the field, not the reference as I stated before. The reference is applied to the S term via the ignition switch.
Go by the labels on the reg, not the order, as Ford used 2 different plugs.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 10:25:16 am by Pinhead »
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 03:36:36 am »
g'day mate, you wanna do a 'how to' and put it in the FAQ???... i think everyone would like it...peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline SteveD CB500F

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,555
  • Ride on the Steel Breeze...
    • Nirvana Motorcycles
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 03:46:28 am »
Frank Cooper has done the same in UK:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/frank.cooper1/frameset.html

He designed and built his own regulator though.
SOHC4 Member #2393
2015 Tiger 800 XRT
1972 CB500/4 (Goldie)
Dionysian Divagation (Steve's Blog)

Offline SteveD CB500F

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,555
  • Ride on the Steel Breeze...
    • Nirvana Motorcycles
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 03:48:41 am »
SOHC4 Member #2393
2015 Tiger 800 XRT
1972 CB500/4 (Goldie)
Dionysian Divagation (Steve's Blog)

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,809
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 06:24:26 am »
are the recitifiers a radio shack item?
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline GoatBaSS

  • Could someone find an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • To weird to live, to rare to die.
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 09:26:15 am »
Why is it every time I finish twisting the last bolt on my replacement mousetrap, along comes another one.....

Thanks for the tip, and the savings.

Radio supply houses and electronic parts distributors for tv repair etc should be able to help out. If a zener diode is good enough for a Triumph, why not and RCA!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:39:09 am by GoatBaSS »
Leethal # 3046?
1972 CB750K/900CC Red Headed Dunstall, 1975CB750FSS Gone BNF: 1974CB500T, 1976CB750K X 2

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,212
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 07:16:09 pm »
Great information. Thanks, one and all!!
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

fourplay

  • Guest
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 08:20:24 pm »
Way to go guys. it's stuff like this that keeps these old machines on the road.

I was thinking about some kind of "voltpak" like Harley uses. Rectifier and regulator all in one. I have seen these posted on parts suppliers web sites, but they want $100 or so for them.

I am into amatuer radio as another hobby, but know just enough to be dangerous. Thanks for engineering this stuff.

Vance

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 11:24:37 pm »
are the recitifiers a radio shack item?

I don't think you can get them at RatShak, but I haven't really checked. It seems that their electronics selection has gone close to nill.

You can get them here for $2.50 apiece:

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FWB-352/110/35_A_200_PIV_BRIDGE_RECTIFIER_.html

Edit: Radio Shack has rectifiers, though they're 50v and 25a. For safety, I'd suggest at least 100v but if you really want to try...

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062584&cp=&origkw=rectifier&kw=rectifier&parentPage=search
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 03:07:38 pm by Pinhead »
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,809
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2006, 09:09:41 am »
groovy,thanks pinhead
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2006, 06:23:01 pm »
Has anyone else tried this? If so, what experiences have you had thus far?
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Bodi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,271
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2006, 09:58:17 pm »
I've used a few of the 3-phase ones on assorted bikes - the second picture in the first post. I use the IR 36MT-20, 35A/200PRV and get them here from Electrosonic, you can get them from Allied Electronics and probably lots of other places in the USA. They were around $10.00 Canadian 2 years ago as I recall. The 35A one is the highest rated "small and cheap" one I could find, and it has proven to be enough on a 750. Higher rated 3-phase bridges are available but get up in the $100.00 range, I couldn't find one between 35 and 160 amps.
You need to bolt it to a heat sink, I used a computer CPU cooler heatsink (probably for a 486 or the first pentium) with the fan removed - from a surplus store - and it is adequate. The heatsink contact on the rectifier is either gounded or isolated - I don't recall - so the heatsink can be screwed to the frame. You could use the fan - it's always a 12V unit - if you want to be extra sexy.
If you can find cheap single phase bridges they're fine too, but you need 2 of them - also attached to a heat sink. Just connect the "+" terminals together and to the battery +, connect the "-" terminals together and to ground, and use any 3 of the four remaining "~" terminals for the yellow wires.

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 02:43:03 pm »
This should work on all of Honda's regulated alternators. It wouldn't work on the permanent magnet alternators, but should work on any of Honda's three-phase systems (500, 550, 650, 750, 900 and probably more) that has a center coil, whether it's a coil on the side cover or an electromagnet coil on the crank end. Has anyone else tried using the regulator?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 03:55:36 pm by Pinhead »
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Bodi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,271
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 03:20:13 pm »
The VoltPak is for permanent magnet alternators.

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 01:32:13 pm »
btt

I edited the first post for a mistype in the directions of installation.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline SD750F

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,642
    • My Business Site
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2007, 04:01:48 pm »
Please do not buy anything from Radio Shack... I know they can be a great supply that is local but my experience with them is that the parts they sell as slightly sub par and just barely meet the manufactures specifications...

Here is a link for one of the best Silicon Manufactures that is stocked by Digi-key one of the best internet order electronic distributors around for small high quality parts:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=308579&Row=143110&Site=US

Scott

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2007, 12:11:13 pm »
btt I edited the first post to add my charging diagram.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 11:43:46 am »
Bringin it back to the top for whoever hasn't seen it.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Jim F

  • Need a bigger house for more toys
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,869
  • go baby go
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2007, 07:56:37 pm »
there is a company  called elctrex that make after market Regulators & Rectifiers
I run one my GS 2 vavle motor and it does away with the old stuff and puts it all in one housing for better charging. If your doing a ground up resto then you dont want this
Have had good luck with this and I sure that they make one for the SOHC hondas too

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/erol.html
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2007, 11:46:02 am »
They do, but they're $100 or more. The home-brew R/R is only around $15...
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

spaceboy412

  • Guest
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2007, 07:15:14 pm »
would the regulator pictured with the link work on a 78 cb550k?

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2007, 08:58:53 pm »
would the regulator pictured with the link work on a 78 cb550k?

The regulator should work with any and all of Honda's charging systems. As long as the field coil's resistance  is similar to that of the CB650 (actually all of Honda's motorcycles to my knowledge). In other words, YES.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,819
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2007, 09:04:33 pm »
BTT for anyone interested.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline jevfro

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
  • 1975 CB750 K5
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 03:01:18 pm »
it seams these "cheap" regulators arn't so cheap anymore...

When I put in my zip code it quoted me $47....

Any other cheap sources?

Benjamin

  • Guest
Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 04:33:51 pm »
This guy makes excellent stuff -- reasonable prices and lots of customer service.
www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com


 

;
Honda