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Author Topic: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP  (Read 81430 times)

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Offline jevfro

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2008, 09:16:40 AM »
I still cant find one of these for less than $40 anyone have a source?

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2008, 05:22:52 PM »
I still cant find one of these for less than $40 anyone have a source?

Autozone sells them for $13.99; put in 66218 as the zipcode...
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline TomC

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2008, 05:40:37 PM »
Hi Pinhead
     Do you have an Autozone part number for this?
     As far as I can tell Ford  alternators with external voltage regulators used electro-mechanical voltage regulators. Not solid state voltage regulators. Which is not to say that the currently sold replacements are not solid state. At least through 1975.
          TomC in Ohio
TomC in Ohio
76 CB750 F1 Daily Rider
76 CB550 stalled project
76 CB400F Injured Reserve

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2008, 08:54:11 PM »
Hi Pinhead
     Do you have an Autozone part number for this?
     As far as I can tell Ford  alternators with external voltage regulators used electro-mechanical voltage regulators. Not solid state voltage regulators. Which is not to say that the currently sold replacements are not solid state. At least through 1975.
          TomC in Ohio

The originals were electro-mechanical. The new ones, AFAIK, are all solid state and therefore are much more reliable.

The Autzone PN is VR730. The regulator is made by Duralast. This isn't the same unit/brand that I have, though they all serve the same function and should be comparable with regards to reliability.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline TomC

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2008, 06:14:16 AM »
Hi Doug/Pinhead
     Thank You for the part number. I am not surprised that replacement voltage regulators for old fashion electro-mechanical voltage regulators are now solid state. I just wanted to be sure that we were talking about the same thing here.
          TomC in Ohio
TomC in Ohio
76 CB750 F1 Daily Rider
76 CB550 stalled project
76 CB400F Injured Reserve

DCDeBolt

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2008, 09:24:58 AM »

Anyone know would the Autozone part VR730 would be hooked up?

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2008, 07:14:45 PM »
Since the wiring harness has to be the same to plug into the vehicle, it will wire up exactly the same as the original post.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2008, 04:50:54 PM »
So, let's see if I have this...

For a 1977 CB550K:
Black wire > Ignition
White wire > Field coil
Green wire > Ground to body of the regulator
Wire from the positive battery (I went from the stator post that goes to the positive battery terminal) > A+ terminal on the reg.

That about right?
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline TomC

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2008, 08:09:05 AM »
Hi Doug/Pinhead
     Another advantage for solid state voltage regulators. The stock Honda electro-mechanical voltage regulator draws about 4.55 watts in the process of measuring the voltage. I doubt that a solid state voltage regulator draws 0.05 watts. So a reduction of about 4.5 watts of normal running power usage. A small help but us CB400F riders can use all the help we can get.
          TomC in Ohio
TomC in Ohio
76 CB750 F1 Daily Rider
76 CB550 stalled project
76 CB400F Injured Reserve

Offline therager

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2008, 02:02:39 PM »
Ive recently replaced the stator on my 78 750SS and to my dismay im still only marginally above 12v on the battery at idle, and not much better revved up (had to unplug the headlamp to get back home from my first ride after the stator) so im trying the rect/reg next.
Anyone have before/after voltage measurements with this upgrade?

Also, could someone post a picture of their setup mounted?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 03:02:11 PM by therager »

ev0lution7

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2008, 04:46:09 PM »
here check this out i used the digikey part $14.99 and this is what i made works GREAT!

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2008, 02:04:34 PM »
Helluvan idea!
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline low-side

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2008, 04:39:32 PM »
     I'm using a voltage regulator from a '76 Porsche and a diode set out for a CS alternator for a '92 Chevy pickup.  I've had it set up that way for about 5 yrs now with no issues, and I've tested output at 21 amps.  The diode set is rather bulky, but the regulator is smaller than the original mechanical one.  If anyone wants part numbers or a picture of the setup let me know. 
          - Troy

Offline low-side

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2008, 02:41:14 PM »
I had a request for part numbers on my setup.  Here they are:
     Voltage Regulator:  BWD:  R588
                               Bosch:  30048
                                Niehoff:  WA709
                                Standard:  VR124

     Rectifier:  BWD:  SC5
                   Niehoff:  DR82R

The regulator is for a 1976 Porsche 911 and the rectifier is for a 1982 (not 1992, sorry) Chevrolet C10 5.0L.    My wife has the camera so I can't take a picture, but if you get the wiring diagram out for the CB750 (or the other fours I assume) you can figure out how to make it work pretty easily, and the parts are very durable.  BTW, you should be able to get the parts from any parts store, but these numbers are from Advance. 

tatergirl77

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2008, 05:41:43 PM »
Ok hi everyone! This is a lot of awesome info and i'm doing this on my bike, it's a 79 cb 650 and i have the new rotornator and stator, all that, but i saw this and Definately want to save some money with this. So, i have bought the parts, the regulator is the ford one (vr730) and the rectifiers i got from alliedelectronics (the single phase ones), so i have two of them bolted to a heat sink. I have them wired up right i think, but i have a question i don't think has been really answered here: how do you ground the case of the regulator? It looks like it has two parts, the top is the square case and then the bottom is the part with the mounting holes, but they are separated by some insulating silicone inside. So which side gets grounded? Top or bottom? And also what would be the best way to connect the wire to the case if its the top, cause i dont wanna drill a hole in it i guess. Can i glue it there?

well im getting ahead of myself so, thanks for any help!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2008, 06:01:35 PM »
Rectifiers come in many configurations.  Without a pic or data on what you chose, I can only guess.

The rectifiers should be labeled or have a data sheet which identifies the AC terminals and DC terminals, + and -.
The minus terminal goes the battery Neg terminal through wiring.  It so happens that the battery NEG is also connected to Frame ground at some point.  However, it is considered bad practice to rely on frame connections as a battery return electrical path, even though it may appear to work near term.  There are many technical reasons why, but I won't bore you with those details.

Rectifiers are also mounted on a heat sink.  And that heatsink should be attached to the frame.  Some heatsinks connect one of their terminals to the heat sink interface electrically and expect the mounting method to insulate electrically but still allow  heat conduction into the heatsink. These types need a mica insulator and Thermal grease.  Or, some other method that both insulates electrically and is thermally conductive.

One thing you can check with an ohmmeter, is if any of the rectifier terminals are galvanically connected to your rectifier or its mount.

Cheers,




Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC

Popeye: "Wrong is wrong, even when it helps ya."

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2008, 06:08:20 PM »
In the regulator's normal duty (in Ford vehicles) the "ground" is had by hard-mounting the regulator to the firewall. An eyelet and a bolt will work; just bolt the eyelet to one of the original mounting holes and run the wire to the negative battery terminal.

As for the rectifiers, most bridge rectifiers cases are electrically isolated (if you're talking the single-phase ones that I used in the first post). I wouldn't want to touch the case to positive power, though. The "~" symbol denotes AC (goes to the stator) and the + and - symbols are positive and negative out to the battery.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

tatergirl77

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2008, 07:48:41 PM »
these are the rectifiers i bought http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/SearchResults.aspx?N=0&Ntk=Primary&Ntt=KBPC3501&sid=11C491041A88

unfortunately (well crap the pics on the site are different than the actual part) the only labeling they have is a + and a ~. Now the ~ i take to mean as one of the ac inputs for one of the 3 yellow wires between here and the rotornator and the other 2 don't have labels ... i will get a pic posted of it tomorrow, sorry. this is difficult to explain without one. btw thanks for answering the grounding question about the regulator, that makes it much easier!

anyway, from what i can tell from looking at other ppl's setups, my best guess on the negative terminal on these was cattycorner to the + right?  ??? I dont have time to get a pic tonight, i'll post it in the morning when i get home from work  :-[

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2008, 08:21:48 PM »

anyway, from what i can tell from looking at other ppl's setups, my best guess on the negative terminal on these was cattycorner to the + right?  ??? I dont have time to get a pic tonight, i'll post it in the morning when i get home from work  :-[

That's how mine are. You could test them with a multimeter to verify, but all of the rectifiers that I've seen were like that.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

tatergirl77

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2008, 06:58:59 AM »
ok here goes nothin ... lets see if i remember how to insert images  :)



Yep! okay this is how it looks just assembled. i havent made anything permanent yet for obvious reasons. you can kinda make out where the + and ~ are.

And in the next one you can see how i have it wired .. the blue wires are ac cause i didnt have any yellow. Green is neg and red pos.



See and on the backside there are no markings:



Unfortunately they didnt come with any data sheets or anything. I guess they think if youre ordering these, you know what youre doing lol.

Well, i just did the resistance test and the results seem to confirm it -- with the red lead on the + and the black lead to the green wires on mine went to 50ohms and the ac ones went to 10ohms. I have a handmedown analog multimeter but i like it more than my digital one. it's never made me scratch my head yet. 8)

I think ill go ahead and tie everything together today or tomorrow and see if it works like it should. if so i can seal it, bolt it, and hide it. Been almost 3 weeks since i rode my baby!!  :'(

thanks guys! i'll keep checking back. love this site!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2008, 08:12:12 AM »
I'm afraid you have it wired wrong.
You can find data sheets Here:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/K/B/P/C/KBPC3501.shtml

The AC or DC connections are paired diagonally across the device, not adjacent.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC

Popeye: "Wrong is wrong, even when it helps ya."

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2008, 10:27:25 AM »
Hmm... Looks right to me. Gotta take another closer look.....
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2008, 12:53:43 PM »
The issue is your blue wires (yellow from the alternator) only have three source connections.  The is no need to make a jumper from one AC wire connection to the another.  You will leave one AC pin unconnected since you only have three phases not four.

Two bridge rectifiers have eight diodes and you only need to use six.  Two go unused.

Just get rid of the blue jumper.  The green wires should have the jumper, not the blue.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC

Popeye: "Wrong is wrong, even when it helps ya."

tatergirl77

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2008, 02:39:32 PM »
Ah i see ..... yea that makes sense to me, thx a million!  :-*

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Replacement Regulator/Rectifier CHEAP
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2008, 04:40:36 PM »
Ah, you're right TwoTired. It would work either way, though; the blue jumper would simply put less stress on that pair of diodes. However, as you pointed out, it's not necessary. Those bridge rectifiers are rated at way more power than the alternator can put out anyway.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

 

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