Topic: If Honda could've done any better...

[cabrala]

What would they have changed about the SOHC4's?

Let me preface this by saying that I've been pondering this question a lot while riding my 750F. It's a fantastic machine and one of my favorites to ride, but with that said there are always "value engineering" decisions made during production, so what could they have done differently and what other components were available at that time. Let's try to envision the perfect bike without too much cost analysis involved

This post is intended as a discussion of both facts and opinions regarding performance, aesthetics, functionality, etc. I am well aware of the home-run hit with these bikes, but there must have been some scraps left on the design room floor.

[bert96]

A stiffer frame for sure and better brake.


Bert

[bartsitarski]

Brakes and charging system.

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk 2

[cabrala]

A stiffer frame for sure and better brake.


Bert

Damn it Bert now no one is going to pay attention to the question with that avatar of yours

[Magilla]

Dual front disks

More torque

Better riding position

Better wiring harness within the headlight Assy.

better set up for changing the air filter

Better set up for changing the oil filter (this one stinks)

A single carb option for people that don't want to pull carbs all the time.  If it can be done with a car why not a bike?

A better carb that does not need to be tinkered with so much.

A better points system.  You should only have to set them once a year.

I guess that's my list for now.

[ekpent]

Better quality stock exhaust pipes made of some real metal and easier to deal with airbox set-ups on the little 4's. Shocks have never been much to write home to Momma about either.

[754]

Room for an oil cooler on F model 750s.
 What do you find hard about the oil filter? Do you mean with factory 4-1 ?

[Magilla]

Room for an oil cooler on F model 750s.
 What do you find hard about the oil filter? Do you mean with factory 4-1 ?

I would prefer a simple disposable canister filter.  Spin off the old, spin on the new.

[cabrala]

Please come back often and add to the list Magilla.

I assume that there were bikes of that period that had better brakes, better motors, etc.? Where was Honda "top-of-the-line", "couldn't-be-better" and where were they not? What bikes were better where Honda was not?

Being a lover of history, I am more interested in what it could've been vs. how it stacks up to the modern bikes and modifications of the present.

[lucky]

What would they have changed about the SOHC4's?

Let me preface this by saying that I've been pondering this question a lot while riding my 750F. It's a fantastic machine and one of my favorites to ride, but with that said there are always "value engineering" decisions made during production, so what could they have done differently and what other components were available at that time. Let's try to envision the perfect bike without too much cost analysis involved

This post is intended as a discussion of both facts and opinions regarding performance, aesthetics, functionality, etc. I am well aware of the home-run hit with these bikes, but there must have been some scraps left on the design room floor.

Their bikes are popular after 40 years!!!

Think about that.

It had NO rivals at that time.

In that time everything about that bike was innovative.
Like:
SOHC for instance.
Color coded plug in wiring.
An electrical system that was very reliable.
Electric and kick start.
It did not leak a drop of oil.
Center stand AND side stand.
DISC BRAKES!! Cars did not even have them!
Complete tool kit came with the bike including thickness gauges.
Two cans of touch up paint and 5 keys!
It was manufactured the same year as the USA landed on the moon.
It changed motorcycling. (You meet the nicest people on a Honda)


This months issue, (2013) of a motorcycle magazine(AMA), has an insurance ad featuring a CB750 cafe bike on the back cover.


It was better than many bikes made today.

The frame has lasted 40 years with no breakages,
 even when rusted on the bottom.

"value engineering" that sounds like some bull$hit engineers phrase.

The CB750 was produced after WWII and Japan was struggling to make anything after we bombed the crap out of their country reducing 2 cities to ruble.

Computers did not exist .
Engineering was done the old fashioned way . Drawings with a pencil, and hands on testing. Experience!

[Magilla]

Lucky,  you seem upset today.  Do you need a hug?

No one is saying that these bikes are not great.  They are great bikes.  They deserve the title of "Bike of the Century".  SOHC, reliable, easy to start, not an oil leaker, the list goes on and on and on.

But the question was, what could they have done better based on the technology of the times.  Do you think these bikes are perfect and could not have been improved at all?  If so, pull off your headlight and look at the rats nest back there.

Very few things are so perfect that they could not be made better, even if ever so slightly.  Take the thong fro instance.  No one can dispute what a great invention that was BUT it should only come in size small and medium and there should NEVER EVER be any made for men.

[Black 750K8]

The whole topic went right over his head
""value engineering" that sounds like some bull$hit engineers phrase."
You should know
"The CB750 was produced after WWII and Japan was struggling to make anything after we bombed the crap out of their country reducing 2 cities to ruble"
Did you forget about Pearl? It should have been three

[Black 750K8]

How about wheel bearings that you could drive home on both sides and not worry if you went a little to far.

[70CB750]

Room for an oil cooler on F model 750s.
 What do you find hard about the oil filter? Do you mean with factory 4-1 ?

I would prefer a simple disposable canister filter.  Spin off the old, spin on the new.

Very easy to do:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113992.0

I use Bosch 3323 filters for last 10 000 miles or so, makes life much easier.

[lrutt]

Honestly,  I don't think any of the items listed are really all that valid. I've owned my 76 K6 since 78 and only ever had to mess with tires and chain.

I think I cleaned the carbs a couple times, and points last a very long time. I can't recall the last time I replaced them, or even had to adjust them.

Seriously...the oil filter?? Be glad it has one. Air filter is not tough to service at all. Try a new bike!!

After 35 years I'm perfectly happy with my bike and wouldn't change a thing with it. It has outlasted 2 wives and given me much less trouble.

[Magilla]

The whole topic went right over his head
""value engineering" that sounds like some bull$hit engineers phrase."
You should know
"The CB750 was produced after WWII and Japan was struggling to make anything after we bombed the crap out of their country reducing 2 cities to ruble"
Did you forget about Pearl? It should have been three

Wait.  I thought the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.  Did John Belushi have that wrong?

"Over?  Nothing is over until we decide it is.  Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? (Germans??  He's on a roll) Hell no and it ain't over now.  When to going gets tough, the tough get going.  Who's with me?"

[cabrala]

Lucky, I am pretty certain I expressed the enjoyment I get from this bike and at 40 years old, that is indeed impressive. There is no arguing the point that Honda hit a home-run with these bikes. With that said there are always decisions made during design or production that could've been different whether performance-based, aesthetic-based or functionality-based. What are they and why?

It is quite possible that as a graphic designer you don't fully understand the term "value engineering", and while I agree that it is a bull#$%* (modern) engineering term, it has been a reality in the lives of architects, contractors and fabricators...even without me knowing its moniker at that time (please feel free to enlighten me).

There is a design and there is a reality of making it. Tucked into that relationship is financial cost. Honda could have designed with the best frame, the best brakes, the best engine specs, etc. but found that the cost of production would land a higher price tag than their target market. In turn they "value engineered" some components without sacrificing the amazing bikes that bring us here today. I'm just interested in listening to a history lesson.

[cabrala]

After 35 years I'm perfectly happy with my bike and wouldn't change a thing with it. It has outlasted 2 wives and given me much less trouble.

Haha! I do agree that there is something to be said about the lives these bikes have had and the duration of interest in them over the past 40 years. If they could talk, I wonder what stories they would tell...

[lucky]

My ideas for a perfect motorcycle.

A steel tube frame that can be repaired with simple
technology and a double loop cradle frame
to make it easy to work on.

The frame should be flat on the bottom with nothing
 protruding so the bike can easily be jacked up.

A tool kit that does not require a tool to open the tool kit.

A transmission access plate so that the transmission can be worked on without completely removing and taking the engine apart.

A wet clutch that has a separate oil supply.

Tapered head bearings from the factory.

No propietary electrical connections that cannot
be purchased at any hardware store.
Chain drive.
The fuel injection must be simple and have no $500 parts.

Passenger seat must be the same height as the driver seat.

Powder coated frame and components.

The engine needs to be a v twin so that the foot peg position can be optimal for all ages and heights. The V twin engine needs to be SOHC.

The oil filter must have easy access.
The fuel filter must have easy access and replacement.


No special tools should be required anywhere on the motorcycle .
Only standard tools,that are easily available.

The exhausts should  show some craftsmanship.
None that have foot rests built into them.
No unobtainable materials.
The mufflers should be the same price as car mufflers.
The mufflers should be quiet but have a nice rumble so that cars can hear them.
No garbage can titanium $600 mufflers.

The battery should be easy to get in and out of the motorcycle.

Electric start that is beefy and reliable.

Instruments must be located where they are easy to
read without taking your eyes off of the road.

No "black" boxes that cost $500.

The gas tank has to be strong enough that you cannot dent it with your fist.
The gas tank should be compatible with ethanol fuels.

A simple non electronic fuel gauge. Even if it is a dip stick!

A dipstick for the oil so you do not have to lay on the
ground to look at a sight glass, while a friend holds up the bike.

A optional device to find the bike if it is stolen.
The device must be hidden and non removable.
It should be in the frame and the engine.

The bike has to be operated with a KEY ignition. No electronics.

[754]

Magilla you wish for spinon for a bike that was built when no no bike had them ..if thats the case, i wish they had lighter floating rotors, and better caliper mounts.. But they didnt..

 I dont get the whole spinon bs. Does nobody here care enough about their engine condition to check whats inside the filter every time.... Maybe I am the only one.. ,, it takes like maybe 3 minutes or less..
I know guys that cut open spinons constantly..but its on stuff that only came with a spinon.

[lucky]

Lucky,  you seem upset today.  Do you need a hug?

No one is saying that these bikes are not great.  They are great bikes.  They deserve the title of "Bike of the Century".  SOHC, reliable, easy to start, not an oil leaker, the list goes on and on and on.

But the question was, what could they have done better based on the technology of the times.  Do you think these bikes are perfect and could not have been improved at all?  If so, pull off your headlight and look at the rats nest back there.

Very few things are so perfect that they could not be made better, even if ever so slightly.  Take the thong fro instance.  No one can dispute what a great invention that was BUT it should only come in size small and medium and there should NEVER EVER be any made for men.

They already make thongs for men. LOL.. Get with it man.LOL

[lucky]

The whole topic went right over his head
""value engineering" that sounds like some bull$hit engineers phrase."
You should know
"The CB750 was produced after WWII and Japan was struggling to make anything after we bombed the crap out of their country reducing 2 cities to ruble"
Did you forget about Pearl? It should have been three

No person forgets any wars or violence.

[Magilla]

Lrutt, the question was "what could have been better".  It was not a question of was it good or even great, it was simply what could have been better.  You have to understand that spirit of the question.

Yes it has an oil filter and that is good BUT a simple spin on/spin off would be better.

Yes the brakes work very well and better than almost anything at that time BUT dual disks would have been better.

Think of it as a wish list.  If you could make anything even slightly better, what would you improve?


People on this site get so sensitive over these bikes.  If you mention that something could be improved or that you like a different bike people go bananas.  Its as if you punched their grandmother.

If the design of this bike was perfect there would never have been another improvement to anything in the motorcycle industry, EVER.  Every single motorcycle ever produced from 1969 through today would be a SOHC 4 with a single disc brake and a rats nest behind the headlight.

They would all have flat seats and 4 into 4 exhausts made of tin that rust quickly. 
No one would have needed to invent fuel injection or anti lock brakes. 
Fuel bowls will be regularly spilling over on all new bikes. 
A fuel filter would have never made its way on a bike. 
A 130 rear tire would be all that we see in MotoGP. 
Rubber mounted motors would not exist. 
Chromolly and aluminum frames would never be invented.
The list goes on.

[lucky]

The whole topic went right over his head
""value engineering" that sounds like some bull$hit engineers phrase."
You should know
"The CB750 was produced after WWII and Japan was struggling to make anything after we bombed the crap out of their country reducing 2 cities to ruble"
Did you forget about Pearl? It should have been three

Wait.  I thought the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.  Did John Belushi have that wrong?

"Over?  Nothing is over until we decide it is.  Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? (Germans??  He's on a roll) Hell no and it ain't over now.  When to going gets tough, the tough get going.  Who's with me?"

Mustang Sally was not written by "The contenders" either. Wilson Picket wrote it.LOL

[Duanob]

If I really wanted anything changed about my bike I would've bought a newer sport bike. But i didn't and I love my old Honda just the way is.

i guess I am too much of a realist to live in this "What If..." kind of world