Author Topic: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks  (Read 4586 times)

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Offline RRed

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Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« on: September 23, 2013, 10:30:27 AM »
Hi all,

Wondering if someone can clear this up for me. I recently rebuilt my front master cylinder, new brake lines, cleaned calipers, o-rings etc. However, my master cylinder is leaking by the rubber boot at the lever.

I thought the boot was just to keep the dust/dirt out. Is it supposed to keep the fluid in? Or do I have another more internal problem with my rebuild?

Bike is a 1978 CB 750F.

-Randy

Offline RRed

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 11:56:49 AM »
Here are some pictures of the boot and MC.

Again, I'm just curious if that boot actually holds brake fluid in. I doubt it should. I think it's just to keep the air out. But is it meant to seal the air as well. That should be for inner seal o-ring.

Anyone?

Trying to figure out if I have to order another kit and rebuilt it again.


Offline NobleHops

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 12:09:33 PM »
That boot is just a dust seal of sorts, the seal on the plunger is what's supposed to hold the fluid in.

This is all too common I'm afraid. The potmetal these are cast from is prone to pitting and I've had a #$%* of a time getting them to reseal too. Some guys wrap wet/dry paper around a dowel, wet it with brake fluid and very lightly sand the bore of the MC to try and smooth out imperfections. I bought a set of lightly abrasive rotary brushes and used them in my cordless drill to polish them up with that - that has worked a few times, but not 100%. Whatever you try, yes the entire thing has to be disassembled, and then all the parts very carefully cleaned with soap and lots of water to get any dried crystalized spooge out of the system, including the reservoir. Then rebuild it again, keeping super-clean, using fresh brake fluid for lubrication on the new seals and in the bore.

If that still doesn't work then your options are to scrounge another, or to possibly get yours resleeved. I had to send one to a place called Apple Hydraulics, and they inserted a nice bronze sleeve (for ~$100 as I recall) and it sealed up perfectly, and is likely to now be rebuildable to infinity and beyond. They also nicked and scratched up the exterior of it pretty badly, so be prepared for that if you use them - you're going to want to powderblast and repaint it when they're through.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 05:40:38 PM by NobleHops »
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline Mista750

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 12:10:35 PM »
Hey Randy. I think the rubber seals will need some time to swell from the fluid. I had the same issue at first and now, dry as a bone!

BTW, I bought my kit off ebay and made sure my cylinder was spotless before installing the kit.

Offline RRed

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 12:31:02 PM »
Thanks for the replys, and confirming my thoughts on that boot.

I guess I'll give it a day or two to see if the fluid helped it seal. Feeling doubtful on that one.

I "thought" I had it pretty clean. I know the little hole in the reservoir is clean. But I also wondering if I was cranking on it too much to test it before I put fluid it. Wonder if I wore the o-ring out dry. I would think it would still work and that it is probably more of a pitting or not pristine condition inside the bore.

Dang, now the question, whether I should just get a replacement MC (aftermarket) or rebuild and fuss with this old one. Problem is, when looking for an aftermarket replacement, I'm not sure what size piston to use. I guess I should measure the one that's in there. But I could never understand those Piston size spreadsheet docs calculators.

This is the last thing in my "phase 1" rebuild. I can't wait to get this thing on the road but not having brakes... that would be bad...

Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 04:07:22 PM »
Every situation is a little different from others just like it, that's why there are so many right ways to do things.  I'm not a fan of scraping out the bores with sticks or metal objects or even abrasive cleaning of bores in brake parts even tho automotive has been using dingle berry hones for shoe brake cylinder clean up for umpteen years.  Here's how I've done mine on motorcycles since disc brakes first started to appear on them.....  If you have access to a shotgun cleaning kit with 12, 16 or 20 ga. parts......chuck up a 16 or 20 ga. brass brush in the short length of rod...these sizes will fit the Honda MC very well.  I prefer the 20 ga, but 16 works a little more snugly .... and on really slow speed, lightly spin in the bore after dipping the brush in some Hoppe's or your favorite gun bore cleaning solution.  It will dissolve and break up just about anything in there without damaging the metal.  In gun bores, the Hoppe's will dissolve lead, so it's perfect for the sludge and crust that can happen in these things.  Chuck up a 12 ga bristle brush and spin to clean out the cir-clip groove.  Next, remove the brush and put a 16 or 20 ga tampon on the rod.  Dip in the cleaner and repeat the cleaning spins in the bore.    Give a look down the bore and admire how nice and shiny it is without any pits!  If you have pits that look like they'll be a problem, buy a replacement Master Cylinder.  By the way, you will see what looks like one pit....it's not...it's the bottom view of one of the reservoir holes.
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Offline Fritz

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 04:17:35 PM »
Some have reported that they had a leaking master cylinder after having installed the rubber seal on the piston the wrong way around.

1976 CB550F

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 04:24:05 PM »
Well that's pretty cool. Trotting over to Amazon I find a gun cleaning kit in a case with the solutions for $40. If I had one to do I'd be tempted to buy one and have it for a number of these kinds of applications.

http://www.amazon.com/Hoppes-Elite-Gun-Kit-Cleaning/dp/B00529KRVG/

Good suggestion.

N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline evanphi

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 05:17:56 PM »
Some have reported that they had a leaking master cylinder after having installed the rubber seal on the piston the wrong way around.



Hmmm... Would this also possibly result in a super spongy front brake with almost no grip until the lever is half pulled?
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Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 08:22:32 AM »
Noble....save yourself some money here when you get the itch to buy one......

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Gun-Master-27-Piece-Universal-Gun-Cleaning-Kit-with-Aluminum-Case/4939699
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Offline NobleHops

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2013, 08:37:34 AM »
Noble....save yourself some money here when you get the itch to buy one......

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Gun-Master-27-Piece-Universal-Gun-Cleaning-Kit-with-Aluminum-Case/4939699

Noted - that's a good deal. Thanks.

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline RRed

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2013, 10:11:17 AM »
Thanks all for the advice. I've been going back and forth on this one... I decided to buy a new master cylinder but will be investigating the issue with the leaky one for another build.

The gun cleaning kit is a great idea, I'll try that. I wonder if I could use water or some other fluid to test this before I put brake fluid in. Such a dang mess. Anyone know of a good substitute? Obviously, I'd have to let it sit for a while to dry out all the water and flush with brake fluid. I'm just not sure if it would be a viscosity difference, and not work.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Front master cylinder rebuild leaks
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2013, 11:35:21 AM »
Even cheaper yet go buy yourself a plastic or brass thin bottle brush, put one end in a drill chuck, spray some simple green or carburetor cleaner inside the bore and reem it out real good. Then use brake cleaner to clean any residue.

Then make sure all your pieces go back in the proper order and direction which is a common problem for rebuilding these things.
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