Author Topic: Cyclex Primaries  (Read 4601 times)

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Offline mick7504

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Cyclex Primaries
« on: October 11, 2013, 02:24:14 AM »
Cost aside, any views/opinions about Kennys new primaries vs HD.



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Offline PeWe

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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
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Offline mick7504

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 03:40:55 AM »
I bought 1 set of HD .from Ted and am curious about this new design.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 08:09:40 AM »
Maybe same as this one?http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=48
Read more here: http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/ccc_catalog_cr750_cb750_heavy_duty_primary_chains_en.pdf

I bought from their German site on eBay.de
They are a different design. About 30 grams lighter (per chain)...oiling holes etc
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 11:27:18 AM by MRieck »
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Offline fang

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 09:14:46 PM »
Maybe same as this one?http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=48
Read more here: http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/ccc_catalog_cr750_cb750_heavy_duty_primary_chains_en.pdf

I bought from their German site on eBay.de
They are a different design. About 30 grams lighter (per chain)...oiling holes etc
Wait, Mike, which ones do you like better?
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 01:32:54 AM »
They look good Mick...
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 06:14:58 AM »
I'm going to try Kenny's ,lighter and better as Mike pointed out, Bill
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Offline nippon

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 11:59:58 PM »
We know those chains too, but we never decided to use them according to the following facts and that's
the reason why we only supplied the stronger version without holes to Ken.

One of the biggest difference is that those chains have been manufactured with pressed bushings with seams
(like stock RK) in order to reduce costs of manufacturing instead of using hardened seamless bushings.
On those chains, the seams are aligned to the opposite side of the sprockets.
RK did not take care about this back in the days. In fact, the hole on each bushing is not a
lubrication hole (of course, everybody calls it mistakable lubrication hole).
It is a center hole for automatic positioning of the bushing seams on the opposite side of the
crank and clutch sprockets to make sure, that the bushing seams do not touch the sprocket
bcause the seams are the weak point on the bushings.
It's not a roller chain, bushings and pins are not rotating, so no additional lubrication is needed?
Pressed bushings with seams are not that strong as seamless hardened bushings and they are cheaper
to manufacture with less strength what results in a lower manufacturing and sales price.
Of course, holes do not weigh anything, so they are lighter.


Some physical rules:
The holes are located on the outside of the chains as you can see on the pictures above.
If the holes would be lubrication holes the oil would float out of the hole by centrifugal
force but never would find the way inside, especially with high revs like engines produce.
(same effect which Honda has been used for the automatic drive chain lubrication on the earlier CB750s).
It would be needless too, the HD chains and RK chains do not need more lubrication, which those chains do not supply, too.

If there should be a lubrication effect, the holes should be on the inside of the chains to get filled by centrifugal force
(compare the centrifugal force lubrication effect on the early Honda automatic drive chain lubrication again).
This would mean, that the weaker seam side of the bushing with the hole would hit the sprockets.
It would not be an improvement in comparison with stock RK chains.
Those chains will not stretch that much as stock RK chains, but noticeable more than the HD chains without the hole and seamless hardened bushings.
A long term test will show it and we can compare it with our personal results.

We are far away to blame a product we do not sell, but we wanted just deliver some facts according to the better, faster, cheaper, lighter discussion
w/o supplying data details or a data sheet.
And in fact, they are an improvement of the stock RK chains only.
A data sheet of those chains would be helpful, too.

nippon
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:57:10 PM by nippon »

Offline mick7504

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 01:31:13 AM »
Thanks for your reply Nippon.
The holes not being on the inside did catch my attention for the reason that you mentioned.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 06:11:21 AM »
We know those chains too, but we never decided to use them according to the following facts and that's
the reason why we only supplied the stronger version without holes to Ken.

One of the biggest difference is that those chains have been manufactured with pressed bushings with seams
(like stock RK) in order to reduce costs of manufacturing instead of using hardened seamless bushings.
On those chains, the seams are aligned to the opposite side of the sprockets.
RK did not take care about this back in the days. In fact, the hole on each bushing is not a
lubrication hole (of course, everybody calls it mistakable lubrication hole).
It is a center hole for automatic positioning of the bushing seams on the opposite side of the
crank and clutch sprockets to make sure, that the bushing seams do not touch the sprocket.
Pressed bushings with seams are not that strong as seamless hardened bushings and they are cheaper
to manufacture with less strength what results in a lower sales price.
Of course, holes do not weigh anything, so they are lighter.


Some physical rules:
The holes are located on the outside of the chains as you can see on the pictures above.
If the holes would be lubrication holes the oil would float out of the hole by centrifugal
force but never would find the way inside, especially with high revs like engines produce
(same effect which Honda has been used for the automatic drive chain lubrication on the earlier CB750s).
It would be needless too, the HD chains and RK chains do not need more lubrication, which those chains do not supply, too.

If there should be a lubrication effect, the holes should be on the inside of the chains to get filled by centrifugal force
(compare the centrifugal force lubrication effect on the early Honda automatic drive chain lubrication again).
This would mean, that the weaker seam side of the bushing would hit the sprockets.
It would not be an improvement in comparison with stock RK chains
Those chains will not stretch that much as stock RK chains, but noticeable more more than the HD chains without the hole and seamless hardened bushings.
A long term test will show it and we can compare it with our personal results.

We are far away to blame a product we do not sell, but we wanted just deliver some facts according to the better, faster, cheaper, lighter discussion
w/o supplying data details or a data sheet.
And in fact, they are an improvement of the stock RK chains only.
A data sheet of those chains would be helpful, too.

nippon
K! Thanks for the info, Bill
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 06:54:38 PM »
and now you can run whatever chains over the new Cycle-X tensioner-roller.
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Offline bert96

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 07:10:16 PM »


...what's the price of this new tensioner?


Bert
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 07:40:30 PM »
...what's the price of this new tensioner?

Bert

Ken hasn't updated the site, so no pricing yet.  Just rec'd an email notification of the new product today.
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Offline mick7504

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 09:38:11 PM »
If I was you
I'd be worried about me.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 02:32:03 PM »
Yeah, that's what the email I got showed.  Just checked the site, still no pricing.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »
I thought I saw 249.00?
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Offline spazz1984

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2013, 06:18:57 PM »


...what's the price of this new tensioner?


Bert
The new cyclex primary tensioner is 99.95 the chain is 249.99

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Offline bert96

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 02:42:05 AM »


Do we have to use our old tensioner and just change the wheel?

What happen to the old spring?



Bert
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Offline mick7504

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Re: Cyclex Primaries
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2013, 04:00:33 AM »
It says that it's a remanufactured tensioner with the new wheel Bert so I think that it will be the whole unit.

Just for reference, I've measured the free length of the spring on a new tensioner - Approx 25.4mm/1"

Back in the 70's, we use to braze a piece of 3mm flat under the spring foot to load the spring a bit more.
It's just what we did on every engine split as a matter of course and never heard of anyone having a problem from doing that.



If I was you
I'd be worried about me.