Topic: Motor Building with the Gas Monkey Garage

[greenjeans]

I admit, I watch some silly crap on TV.   Case in point, Gas Monkey Garage's "Fast N Loud".

In the last 2 or 3 episodes they have had some motors rebuilt by a local motor shop.   On that show, I've seen 3 brand new rebuilds sh!t the bed.
On 1 episode alone, the motor shop they used had to rebuild the same motor TWICE. 

On one of the episodes the motor builder implied that it was becasue they used standard off the shelf motor oil instead of "break-in" motor oil.

Is a rebuild car motor really that sensitive or is their motor builder not that good ?   Normally, I could see how it might be staged - who knows, maybe it is.  But the look of concern on some of the guys faces seem very, very real. 

[Jay Ace]

I'm not a professional nor do I work in TV industry but I have a decent knowledge on how TV production works. There are forum members here that do work in TV industry from what I remember and they can chime in but any "reality" show is staged at least to a certain extent. It's unavoidable but how far they are willing to take it for the dramatic effect is a different story.

1920's technology is not my thing so I have no clue what is proper break-in procedure but I do watch that show for #$%*s and giggles 

[Roach Carver]

I have had many, many rebuilt race engines, well rebuilt every year at least once. I don't buy the special oil crap for a second. That said, I find it hard to believe that the machine shop has that much difficulty building a stock/mild engine. I would guess that its just another dramatic twist. Enjoy the new man's soap opera.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Maybe it's the same guys that disintegrated the front wheel bearings when they installed them on that cafe racer show.

[Damfino]

Sue is my favorite character from that show...the way she always refers to them as 'Ass Monkeys' 

I call bull#$%* on the motor oil excuse. My dad owned an auto shop and rebuilt many engines. We didn't use no 'special sauce' on our rebuilds....

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

When you tell them you want them to work throughout the night for tomorrow morning delivery that should be anticipated. Entertaining anyway. This and Moonshiners!

[faux fiddy]

I don't buy the special oil crap for a second.

Fresh oil is the kind to use. I can't imagine that isn't what they used.

[Bailgang]

Is a rebuild car motor really that sensitive or is their motor builder not that good ?   Normally, I could see how it might be staged - who knows, maybe it is.  But the look of concern on some of the guys faces seem very, very real.

If it were an F1 engine that needs all it's fluids up to operating temp before firing it up then I might say yes but on your every day street engine, no. I've rebuilt quite a few stock and performance automotive engines and none of them failed during break in and I never used any special kind of break in oil. If an engine were to fail that quickly then that tells me somebody did something wrong and they need to find another engine shop or the show was staged.

[simon#42]

i suppose everyone has a different ideas on building engines , the way i was taught is to assemble everything using a good quality molly assembly paste . valve stems , main and big end bearings , cam and followers . oil the pistons . fill with the correct grade of oil for the engine . spin the engine up without the plugs out until the oil pressure is up then replace the plugs and start the engine . immediately rev the engine to two thousand revs for one min , then increase the revs to three thousand for one min then drop the revs back down to two thousand for another min  after that you can let the engine idle . if you dont do this you will damage the new cam and followers . been doing this for a living for 26 years without to many problems !  once the engine is up to temp shut it down and change the oil , then if its built right you can do what you like with it .

[brooze72]

+1 Bailgang

I will be the first to admit as to being no expert about engine building OR TV shows, but, I recently had a relative on one of those house reno type shows (ya I watch crap sometimes too) & reports were that there was very little "reality" and a lot of scripted lines & plot, just sayin.

[Markcb750]

Its a funny show, but no oil is more likely than wrong oil... and wrong assembly is more likely than no oil..


Maybe it why they call them selves monkeys rather than professionals.   

[dusterdude]

Yes,flat tappet cams are a pain to break in considering todays oils


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[dusterdude]

And they were wiping cam lobes,these werent ohc engines


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[DH]

The Trans Am engine (403 Oldsmobile California w/automatic trans)
that they had rebuilt was a real shtipile. The failure of their second
"rebuilt" engine, they claimed, was that the"oil pan was sucked dry",
and that's what wiped out the bearings. I've rebuilt a few engines in
the past and have NEVER seen a 403 olds engine that was able/revable
enough to empty its oil pan, unless it was low on oil to begin with. I've always spun the oil pump with a drill and home made shaft of some sort, with the valve covers off, till things were fully pressurized, and every rocker arm squirted. The last step before installing the engine,
is to recheck  the oil level and add till full, and install the valve covers.
With all the failures they've had lately, it makes me wonder just what their definition of "rebuilt" is. There's always a deadline, so makes one wonder how many corners they cut. When you add it all up, it doesn't add up. I agree with markcb750. That's probly the truth. It's entertaining to watch, and to see how much of it is B.S. VS. truth.

[mrbreeze]

My thoughts exactly DH. I was gonna post this before I read your post. These shows are ridiculous......Fast & loud, OCC, etc. What is this deadline sh!t that they do???The best way I can see a disaster coming is when everything is rushed. I'm a professional mechanic and over the years I have learned that nothing ever comes out good from being in a hurry. If I was layin' down a coupla grand for someone to put a motor together for me.... I sure as hell wouldn't say I need it in 24 hrs. or whatever else time. Even though those shows supposedly pay big bucks to have it done that quick is still no guarantee that it will be done properly. You don't have to drag a job out for months but you can still have them take their time and insure that the job is gonna be a sucess. You gotta make sure you have the right parts and that they are installed correctly and everything is double checked. You just can't do that if you are being pushed to make a deadline. I coudn't work for Paul Sr...... I'd have to run outa that shop in a hurry.

[Red Good]

Sue has it right , ass monkey's .

[dave500]

anytime i get machine work done i always say just take your time no rush,i use a good dedicated guy though who goes the extra mile.

[demon78]

From my perspective I've rebuilt engines from Triumph, BSA, Norton, Honda, Kawasaki, (oh yeah Harleys to) Lycoming, Continental, Pratt & Whitney, RR Merlin's plus a few others and from bottom of the range to the top as far as bike engines go A/C 55 hp to 650 hp for P&W and yes I've heard of break in oil used in P&W but it was in the test cell and immediately drained after run up and refilled with standard the rational was that the engines were going on service right away, but I don't know if it did any good or was an old fitter's folk tale if you build an engine up properly it will run properly and some #$%*ty reality show doesn't change that. Some how I couldn't see myself selling out that far.
Bill the demon.

[DH]

My thoughts exactly DH. I was gonna post this before I read your post. These shows are ridiculous......Fast & loud, OCC, etc. What is this deadline sh!t that they do???The best way I can see a disaster coming is when everything is rushed. I'm a professional mechanic and over the years I have learned that nothing ever comes out good from being in a hurry. If I was layin' down a coupla grand for someone to put a motor together for me.... I sure as hell wouldn't say I need it in 24 hrs. or whatever else time. Even though those shows supposedly pay big bucks to have it done that quick is still no guarantee that it will be done properly. You don't have to drag a job out for months but you can still have them take their time and insure that the job is gonna be a sucess. You gotta make sure you have the right parts and that they are installed correctly and everything is double checked. You just can't do that if you are being pushed to make a deadline. I coudn't work for Paul Sr...... I'd have to run outa that shop in a hurry.

Exactly. And think of all the time that could be spent WORKING, rather than doing donuts out on the lot . More proof it's fake.....This thread could go on forever

[Don R]

 There has been a problem with chinese made lifters and the lack of zinc / moly in the oil we purchase now.  Most shops have figured it out but if they bought an economy rebuild kit it could have had junk lifters and who knows if they replaced the cam or re-used the old one.

[madScientist]

I dont claim to be an expert but I've built over 30 hipo ford racing motors and haven't had a one keel over on breakin. I dont use any special oil but just a little bit of some zddp additive during the first cycle and everything works out. Havent had a cam fall over like what they had on a previous engine build. Never sucked an oil pan dry like what they had on the Trans Am episode. However I dont rush through the build like they seem to do.

That said I wonder what their deadline REALLY is. I also have a hard time watching them barf all over some of the builds. Example A the Trans Am that they ruined the graphics on.

Whats the rule of thumb?
- Good
- Cheap
- Fast
pick two...my guess is they pick cheap and fast

[Pecantree]

Had to comment on this Jerry, work in film and just finished a show. Finally have time to catch up on the boards.
"Reality" TV is scripted, What to do, Who to argue with, Who to #$%* slap.
Don't you find it odd that NOBODY but the main characters EVER bid on the storage wars franchise.
Networks LOVE "reality" shows because they are incredibly cheap to produce.
They employ 3 to 10 people in the field to shoot an episode. This doesn't count the 14 "producers" sitting back in the office in LA.

Compare this to a scripted show. Shooting crew average's about 40 to 60 people on set. This doesn't count the offset crew, another 20 to 100 people. Then you get into the support staff in the office.
So labor cost for scripted TV or film is high.
A contemporary drama will be cheaper to produce than a period piece set in the American civil war(Don't laugh, just did this)
We had a huge construction department to build and paint all these sets.

Regarding the engine build Either they rushed it and blew it or it was written into the drama from the get go.
Most of the crew dislike reality shows because the only people who get work are the sound guy and two camera guys.
Oh, and an intern to drive them around and and bring snacks.

Oh Jeez, don't get me started.

Steve

[donny]

A Deadline, in every episode of all shows with a build or rework...always.   

Always a Deadline. 


A deadline...every episode.      Every show, get it?

How can anyone be dumb enuff not catch on these shows are not "reality".   

[bjbuchanan]

You guys need to spend more time with 60's tech car engines, flat tappet cam lobes get wiped out with the lack of zinc and other additives in today's oil. It is the initial break in procedure when they go flat, wasting a nice rebuild. A fresh rebuild will need the "break in" oil if it uses flat tappet cams. You can use additives too, expensive tho too

Am I surprised those guys didn't think of it? Yes. Surprised at the results? No. The shows are obviously very scripted but it is a reality, car mags have done it too. I am a Car Craft subscriber and those guys have done it before too

OHC doesn't matter the same. Another thing to consider is that a lot, to my knowledge atleast, air cooled engines usually have hardened surfaces where water cooled engines will not. Corvairs in the 60's with hardened valve seats so they were unaffected when lead was removed from gas.

[DH]

A Deadline, in every episode of all shows with a build or rework...always.   

Always a Deadline. 


A deadline...every episode.      Every show, get it?

How can anyone be dumb enuff not catch on these shows are not "reality".   

Well F#$k it then.... I'm gonna go watch Jerry Springer.