Topic: 1975 CB550K1 - Stock-ish Restomod - More Mods

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Fuel injection will spoil you (in a good way).

No kidding.  The throttle response with fuel injection is just so immediate!

Don, have you ever considered swapping one of your vintage Honda's over to fuel injection system?  I've kicked around the thought of that with the 550 but I would imagine that would involve some pretty pricey parts.

There have been a couple of members that have taken on the task.  It involves some pricey parts and brain damage -- plus a more robust charging system to power the fuel pump, etc.  I don't believe you gain any significant engine performance gains from it though.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Have you seen the 450 build where they are putting a cb500r motor in the frame?

It is an interesting build for a bike/roller that was without its motor.  Buying a wrecked 500R without damage to front end and motor...

David

No, David, I haven't seen it.  Link?

This sounds like a fun swap.  Reminiscent of my buddy Ian Halcott stuffing a punched out Kawasaki 500ex motor (to 600cc) and mounting it into a CB550 frame.  It's a very fun bike to ride.  http://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/2013/08/the-thorn-by-twinline-motorcycles.html
Unfortunately, the CB500R motor (471cc parallel with EFI) only puts out 47 bhp at the crank; its engineered primarily for entry level in stepped licensed countries, so it's a little under-powered and the juice isn't worth the squeeze to me.  You also get to hide an airbox and lots of wiring harness components.

[RAFster122s]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,161536.0.html

The Amalmagm build of the 450 frame with cbr500r motor is in above link...
Sure, it is not a screamer, but it will be a light entertaining bike. Anyone who knows old Hondas will do a double take.  There have been one or two modern 175 dirt bike motors dropped into a CA95 frame.  Not as fun a setup, a CB92 or CB95 would be ideal for that retro mod would be a platform with more performance potential.

David

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,161536.0.html

The Amalmagm build of the 450 frame with cbr500r motor is in above link...
Sure, it is not a screamer, but it will be a light entertaining bike. Anyone who knows old Hondas will do a double take.  There have been one or two modern 175 dirt bike motors dropped into a CA95 frame.  Not as fun a setup, a CB92 or CB95 would be ideal for that retro mod would be a platform with more performance potential.

David

David,

Very cool build thread. I get what he's trying to accomplish -- going for modern, EFI reliability.  By going on a 80 lb. diet he might have a pretty quick little bike indeed.  Smart to keep all of the stock electronics.  He could probably flash tune the ECU to squeeze out some additional performance from the stock 47 hp.

[RAFster122s]

Isn't he going with a Microsquirt system to tweek the power curve even more than stock.  It will be entertaining.  So, the 98-105 hp at rear wheel on the cbr600rr would be a bit too much for the 550 chassis even strengthened.  Detuning it could make itvpalatable enough to yield a fun transplant and remain a safe one.  You overpower a chassis too much and it just gets dangerous.

[Restoration Fan]

No, he said he was using all stock Honda parts on the motor so I don't think he's going with the MicroSquirt.  He's going for the speed-through-lightening approach and essentially just wants the low-hassle of a fuel-injected modern engine in a vintage chassis that has all the non-essential pieces removed and a Suzuki modern front end.

It is a cool build.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Isn't he going with a Microsquirt system to tweek the power curve even more than stock.  It will be entertaining.  So, the 98-105 hp at rear wheel on the cbr600rr would be a bit too much for the 550 chassis even strengthened.  Detuning it could make itvpalatable enough to yield a fun transplant and remain a safe one.  You overpower a chassis too much and it just gets dangerous.

Agreed. If you up the ante that far, I think you have to rethink the project with a custom chromoly frame.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

No, he said he was using all stock Honda parts on the motor so I don't think he's going with the MicroSquirt.  He's going for the speed-through-lightening approach and essentially just wants the low-hassle of a fuel-injected modern engine in a vintage chassis that has all the non-essential pieces removed and a Suzuki modern front end.

It is a cool build.

After reading the thread, I get his approach.  Personally, I'd want to squeeze a little more power out of the CB500R engine.  I bet he could get a little more uuumph with a re-flash of the ECU, header, and maybe cams.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

For those of you wanting more information and photos of Devin at Cognitomoto's new rear disc hub that Cal and I (and others) are using on our builds:

Here's a link to the one for CB550's
https://cognitomoto.com/collections/hubs-wheelgoods/products/cb500-cb550-rear-hub-disc-brake-conversion

And for CB750's
https://cognitomoto.com/collections/hubs-wheelgoods/products/cb750-69-78-rear-hub-disc-brake-conversion

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Official member of the billet Cognitomoto disc-rotor conversion hub club:

16463670_1315198071837058_6422229687994640332_o_zpsqkfqymiv by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

IMG_0883_zpszolcgai3 by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

IMG_0884_zps2kftquq3 by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

IMG_0885_zpsy1ylfq5o by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

FYI - the machining looks even better in person, and Devin did a fantastic job of packing the parts (double box method) so they arrived safely.

[timbo750]

Is that the front or rear hub?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Is that the front or rear hub?

Rear -- hence, the machining for the cush drive rubber inserts.

[Retro Rocket]

Is that the front or rear hub?

Rear -- hence, the machining for the cush drive rubber inserts.

Don, did I read somewhere that they are heavier than stock...?   That would be a deal killer for me...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Is that the front or rear hub?

Rear -- hence, the machining for the cush drive rubber inserts.

Don, did I read somewhere that they are heavier than stock...?   That would be a deal killer for me...

Cal weighed them in at 2 lbs. heavier than stock.  I assume that was compared to a stock 550 drum hub.  A stock 750F0/F1 hub with disc and caliper is almost certainly heavier, because the F hub uses a much heavier rotor, caliper and bracket.  By that comparison, I imagine that the Cognitomoto hub set up is lighter.

On top of that, you get modern performance.

[calj737]

Fully outfitted with caliper (Brembo) and modern rotor, the rear hub with cush drive installed was 2# heavier than the stock drum-equipped hub. I haven't considered weighing a 750f hub outfitted and equipped, but if someone does have and can, the Cognito tips the scales at 13# versus 11# stock.

Mick, I seriously doubt you'll ever detect the 2# if you are in the market.

[Camrector]

Wow am I the only one who got the hub in black? Sahweet!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wow am I the only one who got the hub in black? Sahweet!

I believe Cal's is powdercoated black and Gennaro's is being anodized black.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wow am I the only one who got the hub in black? Sahweet!

I believe Cal's is powdercoated black and Gennaro's is being anodized black.

I'm not sure about Ron's.

[calj737]

Mine arrived vapor blasted, getting powder coated in silver.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Mine arrived vapor blasted, getting powder coated in silver.

Nice.  I don't know why, but I thought it was going to be black.  Silver will be a nice distinction. 

I forgot about your photobucket of your laced front.  The powdercoat almost makes it look chromed or like polished aluminum.

[GV1390]

Mine won't be black but will be anodized.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Mine won't be black but will be anodized.

Purple?  Tri-colore?

[Retro Rocket]

Is that the front or rear hub?

Rear -- hence, the machining for the cush drive rubber inserts.

Don, did I read somewhere that they are heavier than stock...?   That would be a deal killer for me...

Cal weighed them in at 2 lbs. heavier than stock.  I assume that was compared to a stock 550 drum hub.  A stock 750F0/F1 hub with disc and caliper is almost certainly heavier, because the F hub uses a much heavier rotor, caliper and bracket.  By that comparison, I imagine that the Cognitomoto hub set up is lighter.

On top of that, you get modern performance.

I still can't work out why he made a heavier hub, have you seen the one CycleX have, it would be less than half this weight, Rear brake performance is low on my scale of mods, I barely use it, I'd be more interested in unsprung weight, hence the question...
Cal, nah, not interested mate, I have no doubt its up to Devins high standards though...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Is that the front or rear hub?

Rear -- hence, the machining for the cush drive rubber inserts.

Don, did I read somewhere that they are heavier than stock...?   That would be a deal killer for me...

Cal weighed them in at 2 lbs. heavier than stock.  I assume that was compared to a stock 550 drum hub.  A stock 750F0/F1 hub with disc and caliper is almost certainly heavier, because the F hub uses a much heavier rotor, caliper and bracket.  By that comparison, I imagine that the Cognitomoto hub set up is lighter.

On top of that, you get modern performance.

I still can't work out why he made a heavier hub, have you seen the one CycleX have, it would be less than half this weight, Rear brake performance is low on my scale of mods, I barely use it, I'd be more interested in unsprung weight, hence the question...
Cal, nah, not interested mate, I have no doubt its up to Devins high standards though...

Although Ken's had the newer lighter model on his wheels page for a year plus, they are not available.

http://www.cyclexchange.net/Wheel%20Page.htm

[calj737]

It's not that he made it heavier, it's that it came out heavier. The stock part is cast and hollow internally to the hub center. His is milled through. Short of live tooling on a CNC lathe, you'll spend an inordinate amount of time milling away the bulk of the material left over to gain what, 2 pounds of weight savings? It's not that critical really.

I can see that many would pass on this setup due to the expense, but given that F hubs, disks and calipers are becoming increasingly more rare, it's a nice solution. Unlike the CycleX, this is not an adapter but an entirely new hub. The unit they had on the market in years past was replacement rotor carrier installed in the drum. I haven't looked Waterhouse they changed that design or not.

But I'm rather happy with the result and it will allow fully modern brakes on my boys bike. And never underestimate the importance of your rear brake Mick  even though it accounts for less than 20% of stopping power, it is critical in many circumstances for safety, control, or emergency stops. 

Anecdote now: I rode for probably a good 10 years almost never touching my rear brake. Then I hooked up with a VA State Trooper who rode on their bike unit. I was taking my then girlfriend to her MSF Class. The Trooper and I became friends pretty quickly as both were riding BMWs. Anyway, we were off riding in the Blue a Ridge (70CB will know these roads) and he was flat out eating my lunch up and down the hills. We pulled off for some lunch and I asked, "Okay, what's up with the dust trails?"  He laughed and said, "You need to learn to use your rear brake to ride better, more safely, and faster."

So he gave me some pretty sound instruction, section by section and many pointers. The next class session, I hopped on my bike and did nothing but brake drills, all rear brake. I will tell you, in my opinion, it is quite possibly the single most contributing reason why I've never been on the pavement from riding. Good brake skills (front and rear) matter.

Devin's hub isn't anything special above an F setup, other than perhaps a made-for modern rotor, but I know I could retrofit a modern rotor to an F disc. I am just delighted to have helped span a new, missing product for these vintage bikes.

Anecdote over.