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Author Topic: 1971 CB500/650/GSXR mix  (Read 8274 times)

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Offline raymond182

  • 1971 CB500, 1972 CB500, 1978 KZ1000, '76 CB550, 1999 ZRX1100
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1971 CB500/650/GSXR mix
« on: March 24, 2014, 01:38:05 PM »
Hi All,
I have finally decided to post my project on this site (mostly to get the crowd sourcing benefit) and perhaps to help other who might be currently going through or considering a similar build in the future.
What we have here is a 1971 CB500 that I have picked up 5 (five) years ago with the hope of building something special for myself. Unfortunately, life interfered and I was unable to do anything to the bike but disassembly and some cutting. Recently though, I realized that  it would never happen if I kept postponing it for a later (more appropriate)time.
I feel, however, that I must forewarn those of you who might decide to follow this build that I am always short on time or money--so it will take me a while for sure.
The plan is to shorten the back of the frame (not "a la café") but rather similar to a bobber, wider aluminum wheels, inverted GSXR front, disc brakes all around, and either mildly built 550 or a stock 650 engine.
Stay tuned.

Here are the pictures of what she looked like when I got her.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 04:50:31 PM by raymond182 »
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Offline brooze72

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Re: 1970 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 01:49:44 PM »
Good luck with the build, looks like it currently has a mix of parts from different years.  Check the headstock label for the correct frame year, 500s were '71 to '73.  Engine swap is doable as well, you probably know that already.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1970 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 03:00:51 PM »
In a meanwhile, while this project was on hold, I still felt an urge to have something with two wheels and a motor so I put together this 71 CB500 out of the spare parts that I had accumulated in the relentless pursuit of project parts.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 03:03:43 PM »
That is correct, she is a 71, of course. Scribner's error :)
Thank you.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 03:06:57 PM »
It is not my first try at building a bike. I first tried my skills during the mid-nineties. This was the result.
This is a Jawa 350cc two stroke.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 03:31:46 PM »
Dresda warning. I was so inspired by Fun Jimmy's build that I also got me a Dresda swing arm. Unfortunately, the thing is actually narrower than the stock one and would not agree with my 3.5" rear rim and a CB750F rear hub. :( Lesson learned, I suppose.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 03:52:55 PM by raymond182 »
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 04:03:14 PM »
Initial markup to see whether the general proportions will agree with me. I post this because in squirley's build (much inspiring btw.) he complained that the bike felt too tall and too short. I definitely want to avoid the tall part since I am by no means a giant. 
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 04:21:54 PM »
Did some welding over the weekend and also put the front tire on so I could measure for the rear tire's height (I want them to measure close to each other since the rear wheel is a 18" while the front is a 19"). This is how she is right now as I'm waiting for the correct length rear shocks and the rear tire (went with a 140/70/18, which, judging by my measurements, should just fit width wise and be the same height as the 100/90/19 front).
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 04:24:15 PM »
Some shots of the rearsets and other stuff :)
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 04:28:12 PM »
And these are my heart transplant candidates: CB550 (re-ringed, honed, new seals gaskets, valve job, 650 cam, and some porting). The rest of the motor looked pretty good, so I just left it alone and re-assembled the cases as they were; the other guy is a CB650 with 10K on it. As you see, I have not looked at it closely yet, but it turns freely and should be OK (I think)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 04:41:11 PM by raymond182 »
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 12:07:56 PM »
This looks like a fun project. Allot of 650 parts are transferable , especially  the swing arm*, it's about an inch and a half longer and the tire arch is further away from the axle allowing more room for wider tires, of course you still must take note of chain and brake clearance. With this application the shocks will be layed down a little further than stock 500/550 and depending on tire height ... choice of shock length could be a consideration.
 I did a swap similar to this a couple years ago, and I used a complete 650 harness because I had one, another member her , I think  without looking it up, it was ScottS, did his with the original harness, and a Pamco ignition that was wired in by a different member and the thread didn't go into specifics on what extra wiring ,if any was needed. I haven't done one that way yet so I can't tell you which is easier or better, but I can tell you that the 650 harness  electronic peicesparts are more expensive than 500 wiring for sure.
  Chain size is different too with 500, I went all 650  because I had the 650 wheels too. Don't know what parts you have to play with in that department... so it could be mix and match or something as simple as swapping out the drive sprocket .OOOps, I see you went with the 750 hub...don't know if there will be chain size difference after all.
  The 500 is a very nice machine for sure but once you are able to drop the 650 engine in after riding the 500.... well... it's night and day. A beneficial upgrade, I think. Enough giddyyap go to make a noticeable difference. I'm interested to see what you do.


   * 500 frame swing arm bolt holes will need to be drilled to accept larger 650 swing arm bolt
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:18:24 PM by rb550four »
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A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 02:45:35 PM »
Thanks for he info on the 650 wiring, rb550four. I think I will take this route and use the 650 motor and the stock wiring, which I have, with some modifications specific to the build. Did not think about the chain and sprocket issue yet; I guess I'll have to deal with it later on. It is also good to know that 650 swing arm will bolt on, but my stock one works just fine with a 140 tire (see pics). I also thought that the power of 650 is just too desirable to pass on. Besides, this route will allow me to replace the engine on my 500 that is on the road now eventually. 
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 02:48:25 PM »
So the rear tire showed up today. Had to put it on. 1/2 hour later and one extra inner tube, she is a roller indeed!
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 02:49:57 PM »
!
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 03:02:50 PM »
As many before me, I am using a Narrow Glide hub for the GSXR conversion. To clear the spokes, I will also need to space the calipers out by 10mm as well as use the 320mm brake discs. I know that some people do not have to space the calipers, but it seems that they are using the six piston calipers that may have a thinner profile. Anyway, the GSXR discs have a larger inside diameter than the Harley's. Some here simply re-drilled their discs and called it a day, but it does not look safe this  way since there is a gap as a result. So I ordered the spacers to be machined to eliminate this potential problem. The machinist undersized the inner opening by a little for a snug fit. Now, all I have to do is to index the discs somehow and drill the new holes. Anyone knows a good way to do it within the basement? I'm trying to avoid the machine shop like fire, because it is just too expensive for me.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 02:32:15 PM »
Had an hour yesterday night and another one today so I decided to drill out my rear disc to match the front GSXR pattern. Pretty happy the way it came out. The key, for me, was to glue the pattern to the disc with some PVA based glue. It worked really well; the pattern stayed on the disc despite being soaked with the drill coolant. Drilling was not too bad either, but my 1/4" bit now needs sharpening.
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 02:43:00 PM »
The rear shocks also showed up today. I went with the EBay knock offs from China. Read a little about them and saw several different opinions, but no one complained too much of those who actually rode them. They do look pretty nice, not as nice as the real deal from Japan or Europe would, but still nice especially considering the price (makes my bank account happy).
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 07:30:57 PM »
Got the front discs redrilled! It was a bit tricky to transfer the new holes, but it worked just right.

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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 07:37:23 PM »
carburetor nightmare

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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2014, 06:29:18 PM »
You must be playing with those 650 carbs, were the springs broken? All the O rings beat? I have a couple 81's , don't like the carbs, they seem to be the weakest link on the upgrades from the 550 evolution, even the PD's weren't great but they are easy to work on.
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A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,101678.0.html             
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,137317.msg1550907.html#msg1550907

Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2014, 04:09:21 AM »
Thanks rb550four,  I think I have gotten through this nightmare somehow. Lesson learned, I hope, people told me not to de-rack the carbs and I did not listen. Putting them back together is almost impossible. But somehow I managed and now they need to be tested. All of the rubber parts seemed fine and all of the springs are intact. I'll test them and let you know if I need a replacements.
The donor engine all cleaned up and ready to go!
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2014, 04:17:16 AM »
Welded the last, hopefully, of the brackets to the frame and gave it a quick coat of flat black. Decided to paint instead of the PC after talking to the local coater who quoted me at $300 for a frame + "other small pieces." Way too expensive for me. Some sand paper, two cans of paint, and 2-3 hours of labor, which was free at this point, equals $15.

The little bugger on the neck of the frame is something I welded for the stock GSXR lock to work. Locks the handle bars pretty well.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 04:19:22 AM by raymond182 »
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Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2014, 04:26:47 AM »
Needless to say, once the frame is painted it is time to bolt things up to it. Engine was the first. I read somewhere that installing the 650 is easier than the 550/500--no way. The thing is much taller and will not clear the frame without either the top (rockers) or the bottom (oil pan) removed. Opted for the oil pan because the valve lap was already adjusted. Only after that it becomes possible to wrestle the engine in.

The shot of the neck shows how I used the original cap to cover the bearing. Some here have opted for a custom machined piece, but, as I said before, machine shop is not in my budget so I have to improvise. The original pops right out of the old neck nut, and there is just enough meat left for the GSXR nut to pin it down securely. Looks pretty clean to me.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 04:30:10 AM by raymond182 »
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2014, 05:43:23 PM »
Nice. Have you decided on what pipes you are going to use?
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A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,101678.0.html             
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,137317.msg1550907.html#msg1550907

Offline raymond182

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Re: 1971 CB500 Hybrid
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2014, 05:49:42 PM »
Yes, I am tinkering with the pipes right now. It is an old 500/550 four in to one that I'm trying to adapt. Not sure yet if it will work. Pics forthcoming...

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