Topic: 500/550/650's that followed me home

[RAFster122s]

With local weather people saying we meteorologically having passed into Spring here, then this link on power and heated gear on a bike at RevZilla probably won't need much reading.  But, it could prepare you for next year's cool rides...as you have time to do any changes needed for next cold season...

http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-add-heated-gear-to-your-motorcycle?

You'll have to forgive them they aren't SOHC/4 centric serving as parts sellers to just about anyone with green, be they a HD rider/Dual Sport/Classic/Chopper/Dirt/etc...
Naturally they go after people with deep pockets....
Anthony's videos are funny most of the time and it's a high energy and fun place...
David

[rb550four]

  That fella is good at video, clear , precise, no dead air time . Never saw his videos before, and the beard degree of difficulty was a great gauge .
  I often wonder how many guys it takes on these kind of shows to keep the shop  so clean . I would feel comfortable laying a sandwich  down anywhere around there.  It's not usually like that here, for sure, and I have been known to go on some wild cleaning frenzies . In fact , I'm on a reorganizing crusade right now. I just got all the engines and shelving full of parts moved into the not yet finished but dry barn that used to be a wood shop... 30 years of collecting stuff that I might need some day, items that haven't been on the market for twenty years, but I saved extra in case one of my customers needed  replacement parts.  All gone. I've got a pile of stuff for my daughter's build that should be gone this summer. It feels okay to part with these things. I'd hate to think my kids would have been saddled at some point trying to go through all that stuff .
 The weather up here ( I'm whispering this) has been really warm for winter and it hardly had any snow, it was excellent. So far.
Seems like everyone else in the nation got hit , but not here. Don't know if it's collective postulation or  what but, I could handle the same next winter.
  Did you get hit this winter?

[RAFster122s]

yeah, Anthony has a gift with words and speech and some of the blooper clips are hillarious!
Even in live on-air stuff he's pretty sharp.
Makes short clips packed with info and love the sense of connection and bond they form. They are motorcycle people through and through.


Also whispering...
We've only had a few snows and only 2 or 3 with 4 inches or so and that's atypical and really mild compared to last winter or earlier winters here I've seen since '13-14 and as a kid growing up. Some of the childhood winters had snow so deep that one year we were out of school for over 2 months including the start with Christmas break... we were socked in with record snow with it drifting up to an adult's waist and couple feet on the ground for well over a month. Once it started clearing then it was a while before buses could safely run due to ice and bad conditions of roads in hilly and valley areas causing too much risk. (county roads were mostly paved but little warm temps not much wind or other things that help melt the snow. We had lots of low temps and several power outages due to power lines freezing and collapsing/breaking under weight of ice build up as well as trees taking down some lines. My dad was out of work due to back surgery that winter so, lots of card games:  Rook, Cannasta?sp?, and similar and board games to pass the time, and playing in the snow when it warmed enough...
He recuperated and after he was up and recovering enough to power sand, strip, and refinished the cedar bedroom suite with new coats of varnish/shellac that he and mom had since they were married...


Yeah, I could stand the milder weather, really loved living in Southern AZ desert for 8 years... last 4.5 was in Sierra Vista at 45-4800 ft and it had much colder winter than Tucson at around 2000-2200 ft. If I had a do-over it would have all been in Tucson. I intend to return, Lord willing.


Yeah and probate is a nightmare you don't want to let your family go through either...


David

[rb550four]

  We're thinking that winter is over.
The barn has been jacked up, straightened out, new roof and siding keeping it water tight now.
  The old wood shop area has been emptied out and the shelved 550 items from the garage shop  have been moved in.  A spare lift allows another shop space.
  I have chosen an 81 wing as this year's first summer project an would like to post it's progress here , if no one minds.

  This is what we're starting out with. 81 1100, 37k miles,last ridden 2009, really ugly. Infact it was so ugly with those Vetter items on it that I was having a really hard time warming up to it as a project, yeah that kind of ugly.


 Took the ugly stuff off and gave it a quickie clean and polish so's to get friendly with it. Now it looks like a worthwhile project.

[RAFster122s]

Talk about different, that wing is radical departure from the 500/550/650 builds.  It is your thread, go for it!

Several wing owners on the list.
i like the naked wings or those with a rabid transit fairing...very sweet looking fairing.

Looking forward to the adventure.

David

[rb550four]

  Thanks for the go ahead David, good to hear.
I modified my last post  ( 2 posts back) with some pics of what we're starting out with. This one should take a while as I haven't had anything to do with Wings yet So there will be a learning curve for me. I want to take it nice and easy on this if I can, and just enjoy the process.
  I'm thinking there's too much aluminum paint on the cases, and there is chips and discoloration.  I really like cast iron color that is on the rest of my bikes and would like to do the main engine cases that color. The other case in the rear can stay with the cast aluminum color. There's enough dark areas in the middle  so not thinking of any semigloss black on the engine anywheres yet.
  The frame has some rusty spots here and there. Don't want that, so a sand blast, and fresh frame paint is in order.
The body parts are in reasonable to good condition (so far) and polished out alright, so they can stay stock (for now).
Front end needs new fork seals, brake shoes, brake piston seals, and some fresh fluid and greased bearings.
Yes and I'll be tracking down a new headlight and blinker ears since that stuff was discarded when it got a case of the uglies (the Vetter stuff).
There seems to be shiny stuff on the engine, I like that so it'll all get buffed.
   The engine will be getting new belts and a water pump and probably hoses and whatever else the book says to change .
The carbs/tank,petcock need cleaning inside and out, and new fuel lines would be nice I'm hoping to only have to do this once. I thought the carbs on a 4 was kind of a PITA sometimes but these things look like a real PITA everytime.
 Oil filter/oil /check the pan for horrifying ground up metal parts and and fresh belts.  May as well change the clutch plates while we're there  too. That should be all the engine should need  besides paint . I guess. Then it can go back in a freshly painted frame.
  The rear disc piston seal will be fresh and new fluid ,do have to check the rubber lines. The airshocks seem okay. Gonna be learnin on the shaft drive, never had one apart before.
 New battery,clean and check each wire, plugs...the usual stuff ,  put it all back, then  pack all those wires up front int a headlight.and hope for no surprises.
Sounds very doable so far to me, and I'm hoping  for an easy dependable ride when it's done.
  Have heard bad thing about new owners like me with bikes like this around 30K+ who have turned over the engine only to have a belt go and end up bending the valves. This one has been a non runner for a while, don't know if PO tried to turn it over , or what the condition of the belts are yet. So I'm going in blind and trusting that this 37k+ has not been fiddled with, cause I won't here it run til it's done. and that's the beginning of this story.

[RAFster122s]

Hahaha...like you need my approval. Ha!

Looks like you have a good one to start with, if it doesn't have any surprises...
Those King Queen seats are fairly comfortable and they don't have to look so bad on the Wing.

The CV carbs are tricky.  The Air Cutoff Valves will need replaced most likely. You should not need new brass.  But, you will need to pull them completely apart and give them a good cleaning and an industrial ultrasonic bath with Home Depot's Purple Simple Green at 50% concentration will clean out the small passages.  The jets I hope are the screw out type. If the main jet is a press in style it can be a royal PITA to remove. You have to pull it before ultrasonic as there are a couple places that just can't get cleaned otherwise. I have a manual by Larry Cargill on the CVs used on the CX500/GL500 and CX & GL 650 bike. Larry's method is to pull the brass and chase the holes in the jet with numbered drill bits and as I mentioned with the ultrasonic.  The brass jets themselves can have white deposits from the fuel that normal cleaners don't really get broken up. It is similar to a calcium build up. By chasing the jet holes with the numbered drills of proper size in a pin vice you don't remove any brass but make certain they are cleaned with no deposits.  It makes a world of difference in running.

Another thing to look at while doing the belts is to pull the alternator and give it a good test to make sure it is healthy and the bearings and comm are in good shape as well as the brushes.  I have heard of guys changing them out with an auto alternator if they need major work. With 37k on the clock it probably needs brushes.
I don't know the water pump on these bikes but the CX motor is an easy drop and then you can get to the water pump. The CX500 cooling fans can grenade from the hub shedding blades taking out the radiator which is hard to come by in great shape.  I don't think you have that issue on the Wings.  Lots of guys do an electric fan upgrade from a Ducati  or GSX and a few other bikes...  With the fan and a thermocouple switch ($5-10) epoxied to the bottom of the radiator You can wire it to auto cut on with that thermocouple temp switch or you can manually turn it on in slow stop & go traffic.

I don't know if the Mikunis that a fellow in NC does are also used on the Wings for more performance, but if so...it might be worth looking at if you decide to keep the Wing as it can really wake up the motor without any other changes.

Once you have it sorted out the Wings are great highway bikes and can groove in the twisties as well. Totally different feel than the SOHC4 bikes and when moving the weight issues disappear once you understand how they handle and get used to that riding approach.  It is funny to see a motorcycle with a reverse gear...later wings had them. But, I guess with a big dressed out Wing it is very handy.

As far as the rear end goes...
Change the rear shaft gear box fluid and pull the gearbox or while the motor is out you will need to use the proper Moly paste from Honda on the splines. This is critical so you don't have to have expensive rear drive shaft spline wear that can be quite costly and involved to fix.
The shaft drive has less maintenance requirements than the chain drive and you will love that lower maintenance.
Pulling the rear wheel is involved, even without bags to cope with.

You have a solid plan for addressing the issues so I feel confident you will have a good experience with the bike after you have it sorted out.... If it turns out to not be your cup of tea, then you flip it and recoup the investment in parts and you have new experience under your belt.

How did this one come into your possession if I may ask?

Looking forward to your adventure and sharing that adventure.

You might want to go with braided stainless teflon lines, it is worth the extra money in my book as you have better brake feel.  I don't think with your wing you will have any of that funny rear and front braking setup where both are engaged with the front MC. Those bikes I think could be a royal pain.

There are more than a couple Wing owners on the forum and I can recruit a few from the CX/GL forum if you don't get answers over on the Wings forum.  Like I said, I would like a GL1000 someday and I like the naked wings far more than the Vetter junk on them.

Let me know what you got on the carbs and I can scan you some stuff or direct you to some of Larry's stuff he published on the web over on the CX forums.  Randall can redo the Wing carbs but you better be sitting down before you see what he wants to go through them and rebuild them...
Larry can rescue you if you can't get the pressed in jet out.  Don't use an Easy Out on them, unless it is a Snap-On or Matco...very good quality unit, not the crap that normally is out there and easy to get. Otherwise, if you break off an Easy Out in them you might need new carb bodies.


David

  Thanks for the go ahead David, good to hear.

[Restoration Fan]

Very happy to log in this morning and see some more posts on this thread as it's one of my favorites.  Looking forward to seeing what you do with this big bike, rb!

[RAFster122s]

Dhall57 is a member with a 77 GL1000, Naked Wing. He has a thread having done much of the same work you have planned.

Good luck with the coming adventure. Gonna have a busy summer if you are building the daughter's house this year.
David

[rb550four]

    Thanks for the info David, I haven't heard anything about alt brushes before...and you're right , might as well change those out while I'm there too. That'll go on the list.
     Ron, summer is on the way, I took 2 out for a ride so far and it really renews the excitement about all this stuff. Even with an easy winter this year, it's too cold to ride, takes a long time to get heat in the shop, gets dark early ...all those excuses one can use not to just go to the shop and play, I feel  it just robs us of time that could be enjoyed playing with bikes. It's been since December that I've played in the shop. Was out there the other day ,  good to be back.
   And I haven't picked up a " new to me Honda"  since I don't know when. Well, yeah the Wing, but that was by accident. The owner lost his riding buddy and didn't want to ride...since 2009. He was gonna scrap it , but asked me if I'd be interested, cause he'd rather see someone else get some use out of it. I paid him twice the scrap value and took it home. 
 Oh yes , I've been real good about that 12 step program  here for hoarders and over collectors ( if there is such a thing). Haven't gotten too many steps up the ladder  but, I haven't bought a machine in a long while...until now anyways. You know, gotta take one day at a time .
  So this week I went up north to my daughter's and set the trusses , perlins and decked the 2nd floor ... anyways I went a different way for coffee and leaned up against  a house was this 77 550.  Knocked on the door and talked about it for a while, and it will be coming with  one of those Ural sidecar frames, it's all set up for each other. Yay!  Just the carriage not the bucket , but that's okay, we'll find other things to do with it. Scheduled to pick it up in 2 weeks when I go back north to put on the metal roof.
  Okay , maybe I fell off the wagon with the 12 step program a little, but I watched an awful lot of bikes that I could have gotten go by, and it's a stinging feeling when you missed the sale.  You know Should of , Would of, Could of ...Didn't. 
 I'll be more careful next time.      Whatever that means.
 

[RAFster122s]

As the saying goes...pictures or it didn't happen...
Glad you have some thing to keep you out of trouble... I have started a few RC models to keep my hands busy lately.

Looking forward to your fun in the shop.  Congrats on the new '77.  Saves you having to track down a cam cover, as the earlier design likes to eggshape the rocker shafts making the cover a piece for recycling.

David

[rb550four]

  Pictures will be coming when I actually start something.
This afternoon I had a little time, so  I have this nighthawk 650 that 's been sitting around here for a while, it had a case of the uglies when I got it so I changed out the stock bars to superbike bars with some low rectangular mirrors.... made it look decent enough so it didn't bother me when I caught site of it. Anyways, while the garage is pretty empty I have that and the Wing to look at. Then I caught site of a flat spot on the front rim of the 650.Someone hit something hard. Okay, now that's all I see when I open the door. Even if it's covered, it's still the elephant in the room. Haven't decided what to do with it at this point. Get another one for parts or sell this one for parts? then there's always" who the hell wants a nighthawk "anyways?
 The other side of the room has the Wing  ...minus all the  Vetter  stuff, but it still has the uglies, it was the bars.... they are almost as bad as stock 81 650 bars. I think they made me sick a little bit , so I put the superbike bars on the Wing. What a difference! So much better looking than stock , and it feels better too. Now that I'm getting to like this machine, I'm almost ready to tear it apart , just got to get the headlight and ears for it , then I think I'll be ready .
   Thought about the paint. so far the body is still okay. I was thinking of painting the engine cast iron color, changed my mind, it'll be fine in cast aluminum. But the frame is so large and dark in black...that perhaps that should be painted the cast iron color instead of black. Think I want to do that.
 I'm a week away from picking up the 550, the steel roofing should be in on Friday.

[Restoration Fan]

I understand, rb.  I've been working these insane, crazy hours but I'm finally within the last 2 weeks of this project. 
It's killing me every time I go outside and see that it's in the 70's or 80's and sunny and I'm stuck inside and missing all of this great riding weather.

Oh well...very soon, I'll get to finish up this 500 and put some miles on her.  Then, I get to work on the 550..which is the one I'm really anxious to play with.

Glad to hear you're looking at a new one.  I think we'd worry if you stopped buying them. 

[bryanj]

Wings don't have alternator brushes, the generator runs flat out and excess power is "Dumped" by a control box that works like the zenner diode on 70's brit bikes. careful with belt timing as its very easy to get it 1 tooth out and it you drain the coolant you need a 50% Glycol antifreeze and 50% DISTILLED water mix or the waterways will corrode. Replace rear wheel bearings if there is even the smallest play or you will total the crown wheel and pinion plus there is/should be a grease nipple to lube the spline drive on the top of the swing arm at the diff end grease every 1500 I think. Complete strips and rebuild are a pain unless you have small wrists due to the way you get the second set of pistons in. Any gasket surface needs to be super clean to seal and check for rot in the frame section that unbolts to get the engine out.

We had a "shop" wing when they first came out and apart from a new rear tyre every 5,000 and servicing it did 40,000 in 3 years with no real problems

[dhall57]

Dhall57 is a member with a 77 GL1000, Naked Wing.

Yes I am Really fond of my 77. The Naked bikes are the way to go. By know means am I a expert on these Wangs and don't claim to be. Member chickenman_26 (Stu ) is the real expert on these GW's. Doesn't visit this forum much any more, but he could answer just about any question you have. He helped me a lot. Little more complex than the CB750's I'm use to tinkering on and it can be a little intimidating I know it was for me. I know during the project I used some four letter words that hadn't come out of my mouth in a long time. I thought the carbs might give me more trouble then anything else but actually I enjoyed rebuilding them. The bike idles & runs quite well so I must of done something right. A word of advice go with the carb kit from Randakks Cycle. http://randakks.com/. Not cheap but high quality stuff and has everything you need to do a rebuild and well worth it IMO. Good luck with your 83 GL1100.

[rb550four]

dhall57, You're right, my mistake, it's an 81 1100 not an 83.

[rb550four]

Okay,so The guy who shook my hand and said he'll wait the 2 weeks that it would take me to get North again to pick up the 550 and side car, because it wasn't a for sale bike until I asked him about it , tells me " Some bad news man, I needed some money and I sold the bike to someone else last week" Hope You're not mad".   Then this ahole wants to shake my hand again.....Like it freakin means something. Dkhead. Told him to piss off , got back in the truck and  drove 2 hrs back home.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Okay,so The guy who shook my hand and said he'll wait the 2 weeks that it would take me to get North again to pick up the 550 and side car, because it wasn't a for sale bike until I asked him about it , tells me " Some bad news man, I needed some money and I sold the bike to someone else last week" Hope You're not mad".   Then this ahole wants to shake my hand again.....Like it freakin means something. Dkhead. Told him to piss off , got back in the truck and  drove 2 hrs back home.

What an a-hole!!

[rb550four]

   It's a curious thing, I always meet the nicest people on a Honda .... but  then, there are those that just sell a Honda, not always the same crowd.     

   I've had time to chill and figure the 550 would only be a distraction and the excuse why I didn't get cracking on the Wing. (breathing in slowly and deeply, finding the center of my being, shedding negative energy) ....and I'm okay with that ....dammit.

[Stev-o]

I trust no one, thats why I always insist on giving a deposit when buying a bike [if I am unable to cash and carry that day]

[RAFster122s]

Guess there is another reason we refer to them as POs...
Sorry to hear of the waste of gas and time...hope the drive wasn't too bad and the scenery was nice enough.   Just need to build a cart for the GL when you get it finished to fetch the next project.     Then you have a decent ride getting there...


2nd bike I owned I didn't know enough about the model and the owner couldn't find the title matching number. So, I researched and found out where they hid the chassis serial number, we were looking at the engine serial #. That solved, returned the next day and the guy gave me my check back (held it with a check) and he sold it for $25 less than originally agreed to... There were several people interested in it. It ran so I figured it was good enough. right muffler has flaked off all the chrome...crazy to see. Left side is intact other than a few dents.
It's a project waiting for me...

David

[rb550four]

   StevO, I have always lived by " a man is only as good as his word"  and  a handshake seals the deal.  It's not the loss of another project as much as the fact that some people can't control themselves enough to honor their word. I'll go out of my way to be sure that any deal that I agree to will be carried out, even if I could have made a sweeter one with someone else. I understand not trusting people, but I really want to believe that there is still honor (dreamer). Sometimes I'm wrong although most of the time I'm right about people and if I look hard enough at those who don't act honorably I can see why they are in a situation that they may have made mentioned of, you know , because they talked about it in our short meeting. It's just sad.  In the days of old , even a man who had nothing else, knew he had was his word. Sad but true.
  It was  like David said, it was a beautiful day for a ride. So I'm all done #$%*ing and it's time to move on to the Wing  project.
And a project in waiting is always something to look forward to.
  Thanks guys, I can always count on being refocused here.

[Stev-o]

I agree, you are only as good as your word.  But greed gets in the way, have seen it many times. When money is involved, it can destroy relationships...sad but true.

[calj737]

I agree, you are only as good as your word.  But greed gets in the way, have seen it many times. When money is involved, it can destroy relationships...sad but true.

Which is odd when you think about. After all, they print money every day but your word should last a lifetime. We struggle to remember how much a friend spent on something, but we always remember when they did what they said they would do.

[rb550four]

  So there's not an extra 550 in the shop....I'm over it.
It's riding time finally,and my fave 500 and fave '80 650 are the first two to get registrations and inspections for the season. The 500 got through the winter and fired up strong this spring , I'm happy with that one.
  The 650 could use a carb cleaning, it was never quite the same after running gasohol in it for a couple years before we could get alcohol-free high test back into the area . Even regular usage of k1000 didn't clean it up ,so carb cleaning was on the list. I was thinking of changing the back brakes for this season  , so that's on the list too.
  So I take the 650 out for a ride,it's running good  but could run better, when 20 miles from the house it suddenly looses power. Like 2 cylinders aren't firing kind of power loss. So I'm on the wrong side of the white line feathering the throttle, trying to keep enough speed so it doesn't die on the road.Nobody wants to walk 20 miles back home ....especially pushing a machine. And I did ride it all the way home.
  I picked up this 650 5 years ago when all my other bikes got flooded, it ran okay, needed some maintenance and away we went, haven't done anything but a light cleanup , regular oil changes ,plugs, and tires . And at a glance it looks nice.
 Anyhow , long story short , if that's possible, Turned out a cdi box fried, took it out. I have new clutch plates for it on the shelf, maybe I'll put them in cause the clutch cable is fully adjusted . There's new back brakes, fork seals, fresh oil filter,wheel bearings, plugs and caps on the shelf too. Might as well put it all on now ,right?. So I pull the seat and tank off ,boy is it dirty...you know...the two outside carbs look clean and bright just under the lip of the waxed tank, but the ones in the middle just seem to blend in with the grunge that starts at the neck and works it's way down to the airbox. Then I see it  , surface rust in the hard to get at places on the chrome,surface rust on the chipped /scratched areas on the frame ....and it even has an inconsistent black frame paint and rust! This 650 got old on me ! It's time for a sprucein up...and everything else! I was in the shop for a few hours removing parts and polishing them up....The only thing left on the frame is the wheels and engine now.
   So it's a strong running 37k engine, no issues yet ,don't feel the need to rebuild it yet. That'll be getting some new paint, clutch, filters, valve adjustments....3000mile checkup
Frame gets sand blasted and painted. Grease everything ...I forgot if the 80 has ball bearings  or tapered in the neck, but there is a set of all balls tapered on the shelf just in case. New brakes and wheel bearings, the swingarm feels great so just a good cleaning and grease for that.  all chrome or any part that looks like it'll take a shine gets polished any dingy black paint anywhere else will get sanded and repainted. Seeing a little rust in the tank, time for a good vinegar bath and POR15 inside too.The outside has a couple of scratches on the tank and two different year covers that only bother me when I look at them , so I'm considering painting that stuff too.  And it has too happen before I'm up to my armpits in Goldwing. Goldwing parts are dribbling in, so it won't be long. So it's a cleanup (as described above) for the 650 not a total rebuild this time.