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Offline grcamna2

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #425 on: June 14, 2014, 02:28:48 pm »
70 - there is not a modern society that does not have a skeleton in their closet. To me, it's not that is happened that astonishes me, it's the enormous recovery Oz made in such a short amount of time to reconcile the wrongs and amend their social behavior.

Hats off, gents!

This is a somewhat similar treatment of American Indians, and in an abstract way, the Japanese during WWII. That's what scares me, we can not seem to learn from our past to avoid the same cycle of mistakes. That correction requires men of good conscience to bond together to do what is necessary and right, not popular and easy. Sign me up for that endeavor, whatever it may be-

+1  I'm with you on that Cal
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #426 on: June 14, 2014, 06:14:41 pm »
I wouldn't give too much credit to movies like "Rabbit Proof Fence" men, it's an example of skewing history to suit an agenda. A bit like "Mississippi Burning" painted anyone living in the south as KKK members whose main hobby was stringing up black people.

The biggest problem that we had here was that the government didn't know how to fairly manage our Aboriginal population, and were concerned that while our white population was continually evolving with the huge advances in technology of the 20th century, our Aboriginal population was still stuck in the pre-historic era.

Aboriginal communities were full of disease, sexual violence, incest, alcoholism, etc, and Aboriginal children were so abused that their mortality rate was four times higher than it is now, even though Aboriginals are still extremely over represented in current mortality rates in Oz, per head of pop.

Welfare groups of the era, mostly funded by the various religious organisations but with government assistance, attempted to take these children away from what they considered horrible conditions, to give them a better life. They offered them education and employment, and assimilation into white society, with the intent of giving them the opportunity of evolving at the same rate as white Australians.

Unfortunately, several generations later, academics and educated Aboriginals (who only received their education as a result of these programs anyway) re-wrote Australian history to condemn white Australians for this attempt to help our Aboriginal population, inferring that the "Stolen Generation" was stolen from some kind of Aboriginal utopia, to be placed into modern day slavery.

Sure, there were too many cases of Aboriginal children being exploited by corrupt officials and foster parents during this time, but the majority of children who were taken away from the disgusting conditions into which they were born, benefitted from the program. 

The problem that we have in Oz now is that we have had to apologise for "Stealing" a generation, and are made to feel ashamed by certain politicians and other agenda based groups. The financial benefits for being of Aboriginal heritage are ridiculously generous, and as you don't need to prove that you are an Aboriginal to obtain these benefits, the welfare system is continually rorted. As an example, when I was in the Army, a friend of mine who was married to a "quarter cast" Aboriginal woman, was building a new house on a government grant. Free money given to a family who didn't need it.

I was brought up in a small country town in the 1960's with a large Aboriginal population. Like any country town, we had a few wealthy people, a few poor people, and everyone else was somewhere in between.

I came from a working class family with 5 kids (good Catholics, all of us...........) so money was tight. Not understanding family economics, when I was 9 years old I had my heart set on a shiny new Malvern Star "Dragster" bicycle for Christmas, but didn't get it, because my folks couldn't afford the $69 price tag. That Christmas, every Aboriginal kid in my town received a new Malvern Star Dragster, courtesy of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.

The situation here really hasn't changed, people of both Aboriginal and European heritage deny their European roots because it doesn't suit their agenda of extracting as much taxpayer funded money out of a government (any government) too frightened to say "No", lest the another uninformed international "Do Gooder" organisation write an unfavourable report about white Australia's abuse of our indigenous population.

So as much as I appreciate your recognition of Australia reconciling our "Past wrongs", the fact is our Indigenous population is the handbrake of Australia's advancement, no matter how much money we throw at the problem, our full blood Aboriginals are still cavemen, and our "mixed heritage" Aboriginals are making the most of their European intelligence and government provided education to screw the rest of Australia for millions of tax payer funded dollars.

Call me a racist, but I've got first hand experience, as opposed to a Googled education. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
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Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #427 on: June 14, 2014, 06:24:09 pm »
Terry - my reply wasn't meant to acknowledge RPF as being historically accurate, more to the point actually of the gun violence you've overcome. Perhaps it was clumsy of me to hide my praise within a reply about something off topic.

We suffer the same "guilt" here today, being expected to pay reparations to descendent of African slaves, some 150 years later. Really? Whatever... Can't go forward anywhere whilst we are burdened with our past wrong doings-

Cheers-

PS now I see the passion for he bikes you build; stems from a deprived child hood. Me too!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #428 on: June 14, 2014, 07:10:40 pm »
Terry, I want you to know that I am so proud of you having overcome your wretched Catholic upbringing. I feel your pain having also been raised a Papist.  I also tip my hat to all of the Australians who have civilized themselves despite their convict legacy.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


 

     
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #429 on: June 14, 2014, 07:18:33 pm »
Ha ha, I had a great childhood mate, my Dad still couldn't afford the 69 dollar Malvern Star when my birthday rolled around a few months later, but bought me the 59 dollar Repco X2 in a fetching shade of purple.

I rode the wheels off that thing for the next couple of years, I delivered newspapers and shop catalogues for 2 bucks per week, and used the proceeds to buy my first bike, a Yamaha Omaha 2 stroke scooter. I never got it going, but that's OK, at age 10 I was now a "Biker".

Then one day as I was delivering newspapers to the "Commission House" (government housing) area, I rode past a house where several Aboriginal kids my age were pushing each other around on a non-running Honda QA50 mini bike.

I asked them what was wrong with it, and they said, "It doesn't go", and as by then their parents had sold off their Malvern Star's to buy alcohol, I offered to trade my bicycle for their Honda. They willingly agreed, and as I'd finished my paper round I pushed the little Honda home.

On the way home I noticed that a wire was hanging off the coil, so I reconnected it, gave it a kick, and rode it home. My dad gave me a hard time about giving my bicycle away without his permission, but even he was impressed with my little Honda, so not much more was said, and from then on I did my paper round on that little QA50.

I think my passion for building good bikes out of junk probably stems from that time though, back then you could buy an old bike (I also had BSA's, Royal Enfields, CZ's etc) for only a few bucks, and it usually didn't take long to get them going and riding. Really, when I think about it, the situation hasn't changed much since 1970............. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #430 on: June 14, 2014, 07:24:37 pm »
Terry, I want you to know that I am so proud of you having overcome your wretched Catholic upbringing. I feel your pain having also been raised a Papist.  I also tip my hat to all of the Australians who have civilized themselves despite their convict legacy.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D     

Thanks Bobby, being raised a Catholic in a small country town dominated by non catholics in a time when religious influence was waning was a difficult experience, but I did learn to fight very early in life, and am still well remembered by some of the locals who mistakenly thought my friendly disposition was a sign of weakness. I'm sure you experienced a few similar adventures? ;D     
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #431 on: June 14, 2014, 08:18:35 pm »
Terry,
It was a bit different, I was raised in the Bronx in what was section of Italian and Irish neighborhoods. We beat the #$%* out of each other until they built a housing project nearby, so we formed a common defense alliance. I guess I was in some sort of fight once a week or so.  It built character. If I had money in my pocket, I earned it, I have worked since I was 14.

The old man gave me a 1955 Ford. He pointed to the car and pointed at the Garage. He said, there is the car, there are the tools. If it runs you drive, if it doesn't run you fix it or you walk. I learned a lot about fixing things from that.

I never paid more than $200 for any bike I owned. I make them run and enjoy them. People have a hard time figuring it out. I always have two new cars in the driveway, and I ride a 36 year old bike.  I don;t owe them an explanation.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 70CB750

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #432 on: June 15, 2014, 03:28:06 am »
Thanks, Terry, interesting reading.

In my part of the world, the problem are gypsies and mind you I dated a gypsy girl and I have friends between them - but they all live like  "gadzo" (gadzo is bad name for whites in gypsy language) the typical trash gypsies you want to live as far as possible from them.

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #433 on: June 15, 2014, 03:43:38 am »
hey terry a quick story for you about our native mates..  i spent 5 months working in the murgon area, we had a few jobs at cherbourg, anyway one day on our way home there was 1/2 a dozen of our native mates flagging us down .  Their car wouldn't start and they needed a tow into town to get is sorted,, .. We towed them in to murgon and all was forgotten...
the next morning on our way back to cherbourg the same bunch of people were on the side of the road asking to be towed back home, ,, anyway the truck driver said he was a mechanic and he'd try and help them out,  the car didnt even have a motor... ..

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #434 on: June 15, 2014, 09:53:04 am »
This has strayed far from topic and is now nibbling at politics.. which of course is against forum rules. If there is anything left to discuss re: the original subject let's get back to it. In a cordial manner of course.  ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #435 on: June 15, 2014, 10:30:52 am »
I tend to be pragmatic:

1. Shooting people can only be done under clearly defined circumstances in all 50 States.
2. Murder is illegal in all 50 States.
3. No one knows how many firearms are in private hands.
4. The Government does not have the will or the means to confiscate or force registration.
5. Children being killed is unacceptable.
6. We need find a way to treat the people who wish to commit these crimes.
7. We must find a way to protect our children in the interim.

Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #436 on: June 15, 2014, 03:11:02 pm »
Quote
2. Murder is illegal in all 50

Someone should tell that to the authorities in Florida then.... ::)
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #437 on: June 15, 2014, 03:49:44 pm »
Quote
2. Murder is illegal in all 50

Someone should tell that to the authorities in Florida then.... ::)
Jury system. Sometimes they get it wrong, but it protects us all.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #438 on: June 15, 2014, 03:51:17 pm »
Quote
2. Murder is illegal in all 50

Someone should tell that to the authorities in Florida then.... ::)
Which incident in Forida, Retro?
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #439 on: June 15, 2014, 04:12:21 pm »
Quote
2. Murder is illegal in all 50

Someone should tell that to the authorities in Florida then.... ::)
Which incident in Forida, Retro?

The guy that shot the young Trayvon Martin {unarmed} that was coming home after buying some sweets, also the case of unarmed Jordon Davis {another black kid}, shot after refusing to turn down music at a store car park in Jacksonville
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Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #440 on: June 15, 2014, 05:00:38 pm »
Haven't followed the second case much, but the first got tons of coverage. I'll say this, I wasn't there, but from the court presented evidence, I don't think anyone can ever say what happened for certain. Forensic evidence supported some of Zimmerman's statements, nut much was conjecture.

I have this opinion though, that if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a firearm that night, both would still be alive, in my opinion. But, if he did need to shoot to defend himself (which forensic evidence prove Martin was on top striking him) then he should have shot more than 1 time. I know that last. Bit sounds odd, but if you will allow me to explain-

I believe that if you genuinely have to defend yourself with lethal force, then there is little reason why you would only shoot once. I'd shoot every stinking bullet in my gun at my attacker to be 100% certain that my life was no longer in danger. Wouldn't you? Now, that not debating whether a gun should or shouldn't be used, only in the circumstances that do legally justify it.

One shot to me indicates a "panic" moment or the result of a struggle over possession of a gun. In which case, not a good situation. It was a legal case the State of FL could ever win due to a lack of evidenced forensics to refute his (Zimmerman) statements. Never should have seen a trial in my opinion. Kind of like Rabbit Proof Fence from Terry's description earlier...
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #441 on: June 15, 2014, 05:49:09 pm »
It is an issue here as well, predominantly with the black fellas, but staying with who you are and whatever you believe in is all that can be done.

That comment about the black fellas isn't designed to be racict and it is staring at reality.

Speaking of which, I saw Rabbit proof fence - they said it reflects the reality in Australia. Is it true that these in reality racist programs were supported till 80ties?  I could not believe any democratic country would do anyhing like that.

Well look no further than your own adopted country.  I guess this is one of those instances where what you want to believe gets torpedoed by the facts.  But we can give you a pass on this since you are "new" here and maybe not as familiar with the history as you should be. ;)
 

from an article written by the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare.

     In a report to Congress in 1867, the commissioner of Indian services declared that the only successful way to deal with the “Indian problem” was to separate Indian children completely from their tribes. The ceremonies of the tribes were looked upon as being pagan and the people themselves looked upon as savages. The parents of Indian children were believed to be unfit. A policy of assimilation began – which removed children from the home and placed them in boarding schools, usually far away from their parents.  The boarding schools were often run by people who hated the children because they were Indian. Many children suffered child abuse in the form of beatings and sexual abuse.
      In 1880, a written policy made it illegal to use any native language in a federal boarding school. The children were forced to cut their hair and forbidden to speak their language. Some children, as young as six years old, committed suicide while in boarding schools by hanging themselves.  In 1910, bonuses were used to encourage boarding school workers to take leaves of absence and secure as many students as possible from surrounding reservations. These “kid snatchers” received no guidelines regarding the means they could use. In 1884, the “placing out” system placed numerous Indian children on farms in the East and Midwest in order to learn the “values of work and the benefits of civilization.” Instead of being allowed to go home during the summer months, the students were hired out to non-Indian families utilized as forced labor for local farmers, businessmen, and craftsmen.
       Little attention was paid by the Bureau of Indian Affairs or the states to provide services on reservations that would strengthen and maintain Indian families. As late as 1972, David Fanshel wrote in Far From the Reservation that the practice of removing Indian children from their homes and placing them in non-Indian homes for adoption was a desirable option.
       In a response to the overwhelming evidence from Indian communities that the loss of their children meant the destruction of Indian culture, Congress passed the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #442 on: June 15, 2014, 06:05:43 pm »
Quote
2. Murder is illegal in all 50

Someone should tell that to the authorities in Florida then.... ::)
Which incident in Forida, Retro?

The guy that shot the young Trayvon Martin {unarmed} that was coming home after buying some sweets, also the case of unarmed Jordon Davis {another black kid}, shot after refusing to turn down music at a store car park in Jacksonville
Florida and some other States have "Stand Your Ground" statutes.  New York does not. I must have a reasonable belief my life is in danger. I have an obligation to attempt to retreat. In Florida and other States you do not.

If I were shopping Mall and the people around me are being shot, I can draw my weapon and engage. No matter what the circumstances my case would be a brought before a Grand Jury.  The District Attorney could ask the Grand Jury to grant a dismissal on the evidence he presents and his recommendation. They could also ask to hear testimony from me and other witnesses.

This process also applies to Law Enforcement Officers. You do not simply blow the smoke out of your barrel and walk away.   

Each State can enact there own laws in this regard.
 
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #443 on: June 15, 2014, 07:12:29 pm »
Srust shameful what happened in the States just as shameful here, a culture destroyed and no excuses and now our "government" compounds the problem.
There some things as a Canadian I'm not proud of, the Aboriginal treatment and the treatment of the Japanese here during WW2 also the head tax on Chinese, my country has not much to say about treatment of "outsiders" (not the word I want but you get the idea). Because I was raised in Vancouver BC I grew up with Japanese kids (and a host of other ethnicity's) and if 1% were 5th column at wartime I would be shocked also after the war their attitude was not we've been screwed it was lets get it done.
Bill the demon.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #444 on: June 15, 2014, 09:18:22 pm »
Quote
I have this opinion though, that if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a firearm that night, both would still be alive, in my opinion. But, if he did need to shoot to defend himself (which forensic evidence prove Martin was on top striking him) then he should have shot more than 1 time. I know that last. Bit sounds odd, but if you will allow me to explain-

I think Zimmerman instigated the whole thing trying to be a hero, if he had done nothing it would have been a quiet night in his neighborhood, instead he was looking to make himself a hero at the expense of the poor kid, If he didn't have a gun he wouldn't have even been there, I don't believe for one minute the kid was being anything other than defensive, Zimmerman should have minded his own business full stop and should be in jail for murder, now his defense, whether its actual or not, is a loop hole for anyone that "thinks they saw a gun or were in perceived danger" so I shot him, stupidest law i have ever seen.......
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #445 on: June 16, 2014, 03:49:02 am »
It is an issue here as well, predominantly with the black fellas, but staying with who you are and whatever you believe in is all that can be done.

That comment about the black fellas isn't designed to be racict and it is staring at reality.

Speaking of which, I saw Rabbit proof fence - they said it reflects the reality in Australia. Is it true that these in reality racist programs were supported till 80ties?  I could not believe any democratic country would do anyhing like that.

Well look no further than your own adopted country.  I guess this is one of those instances where what you want to believe gets torpedoed by the facts.  But we can give you a pass on this since you are "new" here and maybe not as familiar with the history as you should be. ;)
 

from an article written by the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare.

     In a report to Congress in 1867, the commissioner of Indian services declared that the only successful way to deal with the “Indian problem” was to separate Indian children completely from their tribes. The ceremonies of the tribes were looked upon as being pagan and the people themselves looked upon as savages. The parents of Indian children were believed to be unfit. A policy of assimilation began – which removed children from the home and placed them in boarding schools, usually far away from their parents.  The boarding schools were often run by people who hated the children because they were Indian. Many children suffered child abuse in the form of beatings and sexual abuse.
      In 1880, a written policy made it illegal to use any native language in a federal boarding school. The children were forced to cut their hair and forbidden to speak their language. Some children, as young as six years old, committed suicide while in boarding schools by hanging themselves.  In 1910, bonuses were used to encourage boarding school workers to take leaves of absence and secure as many students as possible from surrounding reservations. These “kid snatchers” received no guidelines regarding the means they could use. In 1884, the “placing out” system placed numerous Indian children on farms in the East and Midwest in order to learn the “values of work and the benefits of civilization.” Instead of being allowed to go home during the summer months, the students were hired out to non-Indian families utilized as forced labor for local farmers, businessmen, and craftsmen.
       Little attention was paid by the Bureau of Indian Affairs or the states to provide services on reservations that would strengthen and maintain Indian families. As late as 1972, David Fanshel wrote in Far From the Reservation that the practice of removing Indian children from their homes and placing them in non-Indian homes for adoption was a desirable option.
       In a response to the overwhelming evidence from Indian communities that the loss of their children meant the destruction of Indian culture, Congress passed the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978.

My bad, I should been more specific, I was amazed how recent history is it for Australia. 

As far as American Indians I am well studied in their history, we practiced woodcraft in the style of E.T.Seton and I spent many hours reading anything about Indians I could get hands on.  There is a museum in Prague that has North America collections comparable with The National Museum of the American Indian–New York and you can't study Indians without the political and social background and ugly events - Trail of Tears, Wa#$%*a, Wounded Knee, Chief Joseph campaign, the whole Geronimo affair, you name it.

Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #446 on: June 16, 2014, 05:30:04 am »
Retro - we have a lot in common in our thinking on the Zimmerman matter. Not 100%, but close enough to be in consensus with one another. He may have been in the "right" as the law provides, but I think he was "wrong" for some of his actions. And those ultimately led to the death of another person, regardless of his (Martin's) involvement or lack thereof.

Stand your ground laws should only be relied upon when you have no reasonable means or access to withdraw. Fcuk the "law" that's the moral choice. And morals should always trump legal in my book.

I have no clue what action I would take in a shopping mall spree or a school shooting spree. I know first thing I'd do is look for cover. You can't fight if you're dead. I wasn't born to be a hero, and if have no desire to have someone issue that title postmortem in me either. But if I were in a life or death jam, I'd draw and fire, no question that I would. And I'd go to jail, and I'd be second-guessing the decision for my life. But more important, I'd be asking (my deity) for forgiveness and compassion on my soul. I just pray that I never have to make such a decision.

I'd rather be riding!!!!!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #447 on: June 16, 2014, 07:51:21 am »
Think about it. It is better to second guess for the rest of your life, it means that you are alive. I to would go to ground and fire from concealment, I might aim for their nuts so even if I didn't survive they would have a hard time in the future. I'd want them to remember me.
Bill the demon.

Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #448 on: June 16, 2014, 08:53:51 am »
That is a novel goal of shooting someone in the "sack" though hardly practical. Under those stresses, hitting someone is hard enough, let alone picking out a grape at distance with a pistol. Besides, if you are going to shoot to defend yourself, shouldn't you be expected to mortally wound and shoot with intent to leave a reminder? Just saying...

I'll remain vigilant with my judgement and discretion to avoid these moments so I can ride another day-

Respectfully-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #449 on: June 16, 2014, 02:01:15 pm »
Sorry I keep forgetting, I'm old I used to be able to hit what I wanted and as a secondary if you don't hit his sack and go high he most likely have to pee through a tube if you go to the side he'll probably have to use a cane and you're right, now it would be luck.
Bill the demon.