Author Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right (Read 57628 times)

Stev-o · « **Reply #100 on:** November 02, 2014, 05:58:23 am »

Quote from: oldhatt45 on November 02, 2014, 05:56:24 am

Stev-o,

Unfortunately, Yes, I am one of the cursed anal engineers. ROFL
I try to keep notes on all my vehicles. Each vehicle has it's own notebook.
Admittance to the secret society of Anal Engineers requires ownership of the "little red notebook" and reference manual.

Funny!

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #101 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:17:14 pm »

After being busy for a while and just doing a bunch of little things, I figured I have enough to do a few updates.
To go back to putting the forks together, I changed out the fork springs from my original S&W progressive rate springs to the new Progressive suspension, progressive rate springs. The new Progressive springs measured out to about 22mm shorter than the old S&W springs. (See picture below) the new springs came with a PVC spacer which I did use. After assembling the forks into the triple trees, using the Progressive spacer under the upper Castle type retaining nut, there was about a 1-2mm space above the Chrome fork ear. Also included from Progressive was a washer that is supposed to go inside the raised groove inside the Castle Nut. So, I removed the washer and got out the dremel and dremeled off the ridge inside the castle nut and put it all back together. And what to my wondering eyes should appear??? No spacer above the ear. LOL

More to follow

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #102 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:40:55 pm »

Next up was to deal with the Master Cylinder so that I can finish up the assembly of the front end. I took the master cylinder apart using the brute force method of removing the Notorious Circlip. I used a pick and a small dental scraper to get the d__m thing out. Had to push the guts out of the master cylinder bore with a blunt Philips screwdriver, but it came out with no damage to the master cylinder bore. Picture below shows what 39 years worth of crud looked like that was built up in there. Then I cleaned the Master cylinder in the ultrasonic after removing the paint. All internals are squeaky clean and the small hole (for brake fluid return) is clear and I can see light through it when I hold it up to a light bulb. Repainted the master cylinder with VHT caliper paint and it came out reasonable. Not great but way better than it started. LOL
Put the new internal rebuild parts in (K&L kit), and I did remember to put the seal over the piston.

when I initially put it together, I dipped the parts in brake fluid, but the piston would not move freely. I had not put the new circle[ in yet, thank goodness. So I took it apart and found that the rubber seal was not in the groove correctly. Fixed that, put it together again dipping all parts in brake fluid again and it moves nicely. Then I put the washer and circlip back in, using the right angle Motion Pro Master Cylinder Circlip pliers that came the day it was ready to put together.

Finally put in the rubber boot and the little spring clip that holds it on.

So I'm now ready to put the whole front brake system back on the bike. I have new brake lines ready to go on and have cleaned up the front brake switch holder piece and cleaned the brake switch as well.

More to follow.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #103 on:** February 10, 2015, 08:04:19 pm »

In the picture showing the master cylinder, the brake lever coating is very "yellowed". I was wondering if anyone has used Plasti Dip (plastidip.com) to put a new clear coating on their levers? I used plastidip for a few things many years ago to stop tools from rusting and it worked pretty good. In looking at the Plasti-dip web site, they have a clear and a black coating, as well as a gloss enhancer if the black comes out too dull. Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #104 on:** February 10, 2015, 08:16:49 pm »

Hey Charlie - what is the purpose of the PVC spacer? I changed the springs in my K4 and did not use them...

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #105 on:** February 11, 2015, 04:50:25 am »

Stev-o
According to Progressive the PVC Spacers are for "pre-load".
The new springs are about 22mm shorter than the old S&W springs, so I would Guess either 1 of 2 things.
1. They are saving money on production. Steel more expensive than PVC.
2. The shorter springs fit more models that the longer ones.
Your springs may have been made before they changed to the shorter ones.
Another interesting thing is that the spring rates of the new springs are higher than the old S&W springs.
From my notes, the old springs rates were lighter than the new ones. S&W - 28/48 New Progressive springs are 35/55
Don't know how much difference there will be when I get her back on the road.
When she is back on the road, I'll let you know more.

Also, I noticed from reading some early posts, that you recovered your seat (or seats). How did you hold the new cover in place and did you have some help stretching the new cover. Looking for some details as I'm about to recover my seat. I also found chrome trim that matches the original trim, but it's a separate piece and not part of the seat cover like the original. The trim is coming from HVC Cycle http://www.hvccycle.com/seats-honda.html . Was wondering if the trim will hold the cover in place?

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #106 on:** February 11, 2015, 06:02:05 am »

I understand the Progressive springs are shorter than the S&W's but are they shorter than the stock Honda springs? I didn't think to measure them and am wondering if I need the preload?

Yes, I've recovered a few seats, trick is to get a good cover. I did it solo, the seats I did had metal "shark teeth" that hold the vinyl in place as you work your way around. I reused the plastic trim and strap on the last 550 seat I did....

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #107 on:** February 11, 2015, 06:26:42 am »

Stev-o

My old S&W springs (pictured slightly above) were just over the minimum length specified by Honda. So the new springs being 22mm shorter would definitely be shorter than the stock Honda springs. The spacer will bring them to a little Over the maximum stock length. You can always try putting the PVC spacer in and see how it feels, and if you don't like it, just take it out again. Normally I ride with a Vetter up front, so, for me, with the extra weight up front, I think the preload will work out nicely, but time will tell.

If you want me to, I can measure the actual Original (1976) Honda springs and the S&W springs. And we know that the New Progressive springs are 22mm shorter, so..... Just let me know.

That seat really does look great!!!!!!!
The "shark teeth" was the part I was wondering about. I got the cover off a "recommended" fleabay seller. Also, there are 2 different "shark teeth" strips. There is this one http://www.hvccycle.net/alligator-strip/ from HVCCycle and then there is this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cafe-racer-seat-motorcycle-tack-strip-cb750-cb550-cb500-cb350-cb360-xs650-gs750-/251831886303?vxp=mtr
Which type did you use?

Also, when you were working your way around the seat, Did you stretch a little then hook the cover on the teeth or did you hold it in place with clamps and only put it on the teeth when fully stretched out??? I'm trying to figure out the right way to do it, so I get a seat that looks like yours!!!!!

My chrome looking trim strip is pretty beat up, and I liked the look, so I was glad to find the HVC Cycle trim that looks exactly like the original and has the same profile (dimensions). Expensive but worth it to me.

Thanks,

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #108 on:** February 11, 2015, 07:17:47 am »

Stev-o,

Oooooppps, I didn't answer your question. I answered the question I thought you asked. LOL
The Original Honda fork springs were the same length as the old S&W springs. I will measure them both and report back later on.

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #109 on:** February 11, 2015, 02:42:35 pm »

Charlie --- the 550 seat I recovered, pictured above, has the shark teeth as part of the metal seat pan.
I believe I did the front and back first, then the sides. No clamping, just pull it as tight as possible then puncture the vinyl with the teeth. Don't overthink it, its not that difficult.

Yes, plz measure the springs, you now have me curious. I'm happy with the way my K4 handles, so I see no need to pull it apart just to satisfy my curiosity.
No Vetter for me...ever! Thanks in advance.

Davez134 · « **Reply #110 on:** February 11, 2015, 03:33:36 pm »

Quote from: oldhatt45 on February 11, 2015, 07:17:47 am

Stev-o,

Oooooppps, I didn't answer your question. I answered the question I thought you asked. LOL
The Original Honda fork springs were the same length as the old S&W springs. I will measure them both and report back later on.

Charlie

Curious about this as well. I just rebuilt my forks on my project with the same progressive springs (not filled with fluid or installed yet) and I had the spacers in my kit as well. Forks are K2. I just looked at specs in my shop manual and it said free length of factory springs should be 19.075 in. My new progressive springs measured out to that exactly. I'm guessing I do not need spacers, but curious to see your measurements as I don't have stockers to measure.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #111 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:24:37 pm »

Stev-o & Dave,

Just measured the springs. I was wrong Steve. THe original springs are currently shorter than the S&W's.
The ORIGINAL Honda Spring (R) single rate - 8,000 miles and 1 year of riding. = 18.625 inches
The S&W Spring (R) Progressive rate - 16,000 miles and 11 years of riding and then
25 years just sitting in the garage still assembled. = 20.0X inches
The Brand new Progressive spring - 0 miles and 22mm shorter than the S&W spring. = 20.0X - 0.86 = 19.14 inches.

Here are the pictures.
Also, I rode with a Vetter Windjammer fairing the whole time, if that has any affect or bearing on the length of the old springs.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

Davez134 · « **Reply #112 on:** February 11, 2015, 09:13:47 pm »

Awesome. Thank you!

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #113 on:** February 22, 2015, 03:06:09 pm »

Well, I'm making some progress again. It was almost 50 degrees today, so I went out in the garage and put the Front Brake system together.
Mounted the Master cylinder, Brake light switch mounting bracket, and then put the New Brake lines on. After getting all the Brake lines connected, and yes I did use new Crush Washers for everything, I finished up by having to bend the hard line a bit. That was the hardest part of putting the Brake system back together. Fortunately I have a small hand bending tool that I bought for working on my boat. LOL

So, with everything together, I filled the Master Cylinder with Brake Fluid (DOT 3 cause that's what I have), I started the bleeding process. Took a fair amount of pumping but after pumping it maybe 40 times and getting air bubbles coming out, the bubbles got smaller and smaller until they were real tiny. Got bubbles out of both of the holes in the master cylinder. Had to refill the master cylinder once and I actually had the caliper working. So to end the days fun, I tied the brake lever back half way with a rubber band and a small block to prevent it from going all the way.

We'll see how it is tomorrow if the temperature cooperates.

Anyway, here are a couple of pictures of the front end back together.

If the weather cooperates I'm going to try to get the rear wheel, chain and shocks off tomorrow.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #114 on:** February 22, 2015, 03:07:58 pm »

Couple more Pictures.

It's starting to look more like a bike.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #115 on:** February 22, 2015, 03:11:57 pm »

Once I'm satisfied that the front brake is solid (which it almost is) I will do the final front end alignment and lock everything down.
Per Hondamans book and the manual though I need a working Brake to get everything set right.
So, hopefully the weather cooperates tomorrow.

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #116 on:** February 22, 2015, 03:14:28 pm »

Front end looks great, Charlie.

What is the plan for the rear wheel and shocks?

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #117 on:** February 22, 2015, 03:22:21 pm »

Stev-o

Well, I have a new DID 18 inch rim, new Continental 4.00X18 tire and New Buchanan Stainless Steel spokes, so what I plan on is taking the old wheel apart and storing at least the rim if it is salvageable. Then going to take the rear wheel apart, bearings and all and polish the hub up and replace whatever needs replacing. With the shocks, they are the OLDDDDDDD Koni's. I believe they are rebuildable, but my backup plan is to get new Ikon's if I can't rebuild the Koni's. Also a New Diamond 530 chain will go on.

I also plan on taking the swingarm off and sending it out to Hondaman and have him do his Magic on it.

At least that's where I'm at right now.

Charlie

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #118 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:40:11 pm »

Quote from: oldhatt45 on February 10, 2015, 08:04:19 pm

In the picture showing the master cylinder, the brake lever coating is very "yellowed". I was wondering if anyone has used Plasti Dip (plastidip.com) to put a new clear coating on their levers? I used plastidip for a few things many years ago to stop tools from rusting and it worked pretty good. In looking at the Plasti-dip web site, they have a clear and a black coating, as well as a gloss enhancer if the black comes out too dull. Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,

Charlie

Charlie,
What an awesome thread! I just read through the entire thing and I LOVE your attention to detail and your ability to document that for the rest of us. I actually just took my brake lever apart this weekend as we are getting ready to rebuild the master cylinder. Our lever was likewise yellowed with slight bits of surface rust showing on it in places so I took it and used the brass wire wheel on the grinder to get it back nice and shiny again. I haven't used anything to clear it yet but plan to do that.

Oh, and Bill Benton loaned us his Honda master cylinder circlip pliers to make it easier to get our circlip out and back in.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #119 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:59:20 pm »

Ron,

Thanks. I try to document things so that everyone and myself has a record of what was done and how it was done. What worked, what didn't kind of stuff. At some point, I will convert the entire thread into a single document that I can keep in my 750 folder.

I haven't gotten down to Home Depot or Lowes yet to see about the Plasti-Dip. But I did find a place to buy the Rubber End caps. Really cheap. I think they were about $8.00 for the pair.

The wire wheel is a good start.

I think you and Logan are doing a phenomenal job on your (er Logan's) bike. LOL

Charlie

Markcb750 · « **Reply #120 on:** February 22, 2015, 05:11:37 pm »

Looks like you are doing a great job!

My K6 is my Favorite ride. I added a set of Koni's and cartridge emulators to improve the ride over the last few years.

The first pic is from 2008 when I was reassembling it.

The second shot is after 14,000 miles of great riding.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #121 on:** February 22, 2015, 05:34:14 pm »

MarkCB750,
Thanks!
I'm lovin the pictures of your K6!!!!!!
I have Original Koni's put on in 1976 before she left the dealer on mine.
Almost at the point where I have to decide on rebuilding or buying new Ikon's.
Will likely try to rebuild the Koni's, but not sure yet.
Given that I've rebuilt the Front and put in new Progressive Springs (to replace the old S&W progressive rate springs) I'm wondering if the right decision is to go with New Ikon's. What to do, what to do.

Thanks Again,

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #122 on:** February 22, 2015, 07:24:00 pm »

Hey Charlie...I too have an old set of Konis that I thought about rebuilding. Not sure if you know this but Koni got bought out and is now Ikon (same letters in the name, just rearranged).

The website states to contact their deal to order parts.

http://www.ikonsuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IKON_May19_2014_PRESS.pdf

sales@ikonsuspension.com

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #123 on:** February 23, 2015, 04:42:26 am »

Stev-o,

Yup, I knew that Ikon bought the motorcycle end of Koni. That's why my decision about whether to rebuild the koni's or get new Ikon's.
Thanks for the reminder about the web site. I need to get the Koni's off and make sure they aren't victims of rust that I can't see with them on the bike.

If I do decide to rebuild, I'll let you know.

Thanks,

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #124 on:** February 27, 2015, 12:51:24 pm »

Today I finally got to taking a few more things apart.
I pulled off the engine cover that covers the Shifter Internals.
A bunch of Oil came out. Maybe like a quart?

Now, I'm wondering if there should have been any oil or if some oil is ok, then how much is not.
Here are 2 pictures.
First shows before removing cover. Second shows after removing cover.
Also, bear in mind that the K6 has NOT been started in over 26 years and has been sitting on the Center Stand all that time.

Thanks,

Charlie

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Author Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right (Read 57628 times)

Markcb750