Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right

[oldhatt45]

Ron,

Yeah, but then the gas mileage would probably go down. 

Charlie

[AintNoEasyWay]

Subscribed for more gas mileage jokes.  Excited to see how this turns out.

[oldhatt45]

AintNoEasyWay,

Glad you're enjoying the repartee! 

I'm interested to see how this turns out as well.  LOL

But no matter what, at least it will be FUN. 

So today, while I was searching for the stopper bolt for the rear brake pedal (and yes, I found it in the last place I looked.) I also found the Rubber backing gasket for the tail light.  Was scratching my head as to why the tail light was loose.  Duh.  Picked up a shop rag and there was this fairly large rubber gasket that was shaped a bit like the tail light.  Whack in head!  OK, tail light not loose anymore.  Got several little pieces in place with their proper nuts and bolts, so the day wasn't a total loss. 

Want to get the Oil drained and Oil pan and pump pulled over the weekend. 
We'll see how that goes.  LOL

Oh, and my new K&N HA-0100 air filter arrived today.  Got it for $2.60 shipping included.  (Finally figured out how to use the "points" that have been accumulating on my overworked credit card.  ROFL  Who says I'm slow??? )

And also waiting on my Free Diamond XDL 102 link chain, also courtesy of those "points".  Damn, I hope it's the right length.

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Today I got to actually doing some cleaning on the Carb internals (Jets, Float Valves, Bowl, +) for Carbs 1 & 2.

First I sprayed the Jets, Float Valves and Bowls with Spray type Carb Cleaner.  Got them basically clean of all the heavy stuff (which wasn't too heavy, as in not clogging anything).  Before cleaning anything, I looked to see if I could see through the Jets and I could.  After hitting with Carb Cleaner, I then put the parts for each carb separately into the Ultrasonic cleaner with Simple Green HD for an 8 minute cycle. 

I think they came out very nice and all the holes were clear.  Then blew everything dry with compressed air. 
Had to use the compressor on my RV since I still need to run a 220 AC line into the garage for my 10 gallon compressor.  LOL

So hear are the pictures of 1 & 2.

Any comments?

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Oh, and I couldn't get either of the 2 main jets out of the emulsion tubes.
Tried soaking in PB Blaster, obviously tried after doing the ultrasonic, but still no go.
Is it mandatory to remove them???
They are clean and you can see light through them very nicely when holding up to the light.

Thanks,

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

OK, so today with it not boiling hot in the garage, I decided to drop the Oil Pan.
It came off fine and once all 10 bolts were out, it pretty much just dropped into my hands.
I consider that a good thing.  LOL  And there were no signs of Oil leakage around the gasket before it came off.

So, after taking off the Oil pan, and without disturbing anything I took a good look at the inside of the oil pan.
First picture shows 24,000 miles and 40 years worth of stuff.  None of this stuff was steel (would not pickup with a magnet)  some looked like aluminum shavings, and some looked like either hard rubber or maybe plastic?  No big chunks.  This is the first time the Oil Pan has been off the bike.  Bike was running fine 26+ years ago when I put it away for the Winter.  Anyone see any reason or think this "junk" should be investigated further? 

Second picture shows the Oil Pump Screen.  Looks like a little bit of "junk" on the screen but don't know how much.  I plan on pulling the Oil Pump so I can replace a Definitely Leaking Oil Pump Stopper Valve tomorrow along with the other O-Rings and gaskets and very likely the Screen as well.  (Got all the Oil Pump Parts that Elan sells so am prepared to completely rebuild the Pump.)

Would appreciate any comments, hints, tips, suggestions as always.

Thanks

Charlie

[Stev-o]

Hey Charlie...I see nothing to be concerned about.

[oldhatt45]

Stev-o

Thanks. Guess I need some reassurance. 

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Yesterday, the garage wasn't boiling and I just got the last gasket to rebuild the Oil Pump.
Pulled it from the engine and the 3 bolts came out nicely (with a little convincing.   ).
The oil Pump seemed to be in reasonable shape.  It was still pumping Oil when you spin it.
Although I know that the Stopper Valve is shot.
Stripped it apart and cleaned it all up using the ZEP 505 Degreaser.    Good Stuff.
When I pulled the Cover off the Non Gear Side, I measured the Clearance with a feeler gauge and the clearance.
Clearances were/are:
Between Outer Rotor and Body:  0.004" / 0.102mm
Between Inner and Outer Rotor: 0.005" / 0.127mm

Then I did the Gear Side and the clearances were/are:
Between Outer Rotor and Body: 0.004" / 0.102mm
Between Inner and Outer Rotor: 0.004" / 0.102mm

Based on these measurements, I believe that my pump is well within the wear limits, as given in the Manual and in Hondamans Book.
Manual Limits are:
Between Outer Rotor and Body:  0.0138" / 0.35mm
Between Inner and Outer Rotor: 0.0138" / 0.35mm

I did notice a couple of things that put a question mark to the Rotors.
On the Non Gear Side Inner Rotor, there are 2 little (I mean very tiny) dimples (see first picture) on the high spot of all 4 lobes of the rotor.
On the Gear Side Inner Rotor, there is what looks like some scratches on the high spot of all 4 lobes (see 2nd picture).  But, a finger nail barely feels them.
On the flat faces of both sides of both rotor sets there are what look like scratches (see pictures 3 -6) that you can't catch a finger nail on.

I would make the assumption that these are nothing to be concerned with.  Hope that is true.

I also removed the infamous (or notorious) inner seal from the shaft.  I took a small old screw driver and reshaped the end to a point and rounded the tip of the blade.  Got it between the seal and the body and popped the seal right out with a couple of taps on small hammer.

So today I will put it all back together and button up the Oil Pan.
Have read a number of the Oil Pump Threads and Hondamans Book, looking for assembly tips.  Have also watched the HackAWeek youtube video and the only thing I noted was that the Rotors should be assembled Wet. 

Was wondering if the Oil Stopper should also be assembled wet???  Also need to figure out how to get the Seat where the Oil Stopper sits nice and clean.  It appears to have some embedded rubber on it probably for sitting for 26+ years.

Any comments are gladly appreciated.

Thanks

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Pictures 3 & 4 from last post.

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Pictures 5 & 6 from above.

Charlie

[edwardmorris]

For the assembly, if you're not going to ride it right away, then I'd say wet assemble using a mineral based light oil. I used Singer Machine Oil. Key is mineral based oil, so it doesn't get sticky/gunky when left aside for a while. I used the same during carb assembly (on the slides) as well and everything was buttery smooth when installed. Also since the engine isn't coming apart, just do the oil change when you're ready to install the pump and the oil pan. That way you can prime the pump in the same fresh oil. When priming, be sure to press the spring loaded valves to get the bubbles out.

[oldhatt45]

Rafi,

Thanks for that!!!!!

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

I made time today to finish up the Oil Pump assembly.

A few interesting (at least to me) things.
First, the Oil Stopper Valve Springs.  The Old one measured out to 149mm while the Brand New Elan spring measured out to 152mm.
Given the 3mm difference, I was thinking (but nothing was happening   ) that could a 3mm difference allow the "wet sump" thing that I experienced when draining the oil after 26+ years.  I guess the answer has to be yes. 
Second, when I put the New Elan supplied Oil Pump Seal (the b@#%*y one between the rotors on the shaft), I froze it and it went in with just a few taps of a socket (11mm I think).
Third, I dipped all the parts individually in Oil as I was about to put the part back in the pump.  Don't really know if it helps, but everything went together nice and smoothly.
Next, I did the Hondaman (and manual) priming process.  I got a couple of Gallon Size Zip-Loc Bags and poured 2 quarts of fresh Bel-Ray EXP mineral 20W-50 Oil in the bag.  Then put the pump in and rotated it until no more bubbles.  I also tipped it a couple of different ways and got more bubbles when rotating the gear.  Left it in the bag of Oil until I got it ready to go into the engine.  Hint when you take it out of the bag, have the bag and pump over a catch pan.  I used a cheap tinfoil roasting pan and it worked well.
Last, I couldn't find a torque spec for the Oil Pump mounting bolts.  They are 6mm flanged, so I used the general 6mm flanged bolt torque spec which is 7.2 - 10.1 ft-lbs and went to 8.5 ft-lbs for both the Oil Pump and the Oil Pan bolts which are also 6mm flanged.

So, first pic is the comparison of the springs. 
Second picture is the B@#$%y Center Seal.  Sorry it may be slightly out of focus, but I'm not taking it apart to get a good pic.  LOL
Third Picture is the Clean Oil Pan.  I had the Oil Pump Dowels and O-RIngs sitting in it so I wouldn't forget to put them in.  LOL
Fourth pic is of the Non Gear Side of the pump before putting the cover back on.

Charlie

[HondaMan]

The little marks on the pump rotors are pretty typical, nothing to worry about. It's those bolt-sized missing chunks that get to be a problem.

[oldhatt45]

Hondaman

I was hoping you'd see the post on the Oil Pump and comment. 
Thank You.  I was also hoping you would think the pump is OK for now.

Charlie

Who is currently cleaning up the Oil Tank. 

[harisuluv]

Separating the main jet from the emulsion tube isn't absolutely necessary as long as it's clean.  If you want to separate them (I do), hold the emulsion tube in place with a wrench and then use a screwdriver to unscrew.  The screwdriver must be a proper fit or you will damage the jet or literally just break pieces off of it.  Same length slot, nice tight width, you need a good fit.

If it is hard to unscrew don't force it, add a little heat and try again.

[oldhatt45]

Harisuluv,

So far I've cleaned 3 of the 4 carbs, jets.
The one in the picture above is the dirtiest one from a cosmetic standpoint.
After cleaning (and actually before cleaning) you can/could see light through all the jets.

I used a Gordon (RRTools) flatblade screwdriver that fit about as perfect as you could get, but they wouldn't budge.
Have not tried heat cause I was nervous about melting or deforming the brass.  (LOL)

Will give it another go using the info you provided (using a hair dryer).

THANKS!!!!!

Charlie

[Restoration Fan]

Charlie,
I'm shocked and appalled that nobody has told you the secret yet.  Your tongue must be on the LEFT side of your mouth.  Geesh...rookies!   

Ron
 

[oldhatt45]

Ron,

I've tried it with Tongue out Left Side, Tongue out Right Side, Tongue in the Middle,  No Tongue,  Biting my Tongue..................and it still won't come out.  <G>

I haven't tried the aforementioned using heat though.  That comes next!!!!! 

But I did manage to get my Oil Tank Flushed Out and repainted today.  And no tongue.  ROFL!!!

Charlie
PS:  I'm hoping to go for a ride in September, but we'll see what happens. 

[Restoration Fan]

I'm hoping you get to as well.  I had planned to ride again this afternoon, but Mary came to visit while I was watching golf this afternoon.  You know...the bloody one with vodka.  And I don't ride after even one drink so it'll have to wait. 

[oldhatt45]

Ron,

Does Mary know Gentleman Jack?  After I got done with the Oil Tank today, Gentleman Jack stopped by.  He was wearing an Overcoat he was so cold.  Felt like he just stepped out of the freezer. 

So, next up is to clean up the Oil Cooler (an original Lockhart) put in new lines to it and clean up the Oil Filter housing (and I guess the sprocket cover.) as well.

Then on to the clutch. 

Say hi to Mary. 

Charlie

[oldhatt45]

Today before it got to boiling in the garage, I pulled off the Lockhart oil cooler and the lines from the adapter plate.
Decided to clean it up, even though the oil coming out was still oil and clean.
Got it all pulled apart and cleaned up.
Then I noticed the front of the engine looked pretty grimy so I will clean that up before putting the cooler back on.

Also, the exhaust spigots are a bit rusted.  I will likely pull these off too and either clean them up or replace them.
The pictures look worse than they are in person.  LOL
Just hoping that they are not welded in there and that the screws come out without resorting to extreme measures.
Going to hit them with some PB Blaster tonight and see how they are tomorrow.

[Stev-o]

Today before it got to boiling in the garage

Curious, what is the boiling point? 

My garage was 94 yesterday when I was working on my 550F.

[oldhatt45]

Stev-o,

Boiling point is subjective.  Generally when the sweat starts running into my eyes and makes it so I spend more time wiping it out my eyes then working. 

But FYI, it was right at 98 in the garage and I did have a fan on.

Charlie