Topic: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//

[Bailgang]

Don't try and race on the roads. If you really want to see what your bike can do, or how much faster / braver / stupider you are than your mates, book a track day.

Amen to that. Right now the wife and I are about an hour away from Deals Gap, NC (the dragon tail) and we've been there a couple of times this week and oh boy the crazy s##t I saw. Some goof showed up at the resort with racing slicks on his bike not to mention all the knee draggers ripping towards me coming the other way as we rode through it. 

[petercb750]

NOTHING beats time in the saddle, I don't care if Casey Stoner is your instructor, he's not the one riding the bike... 

Absolutely spot on mate.
We instruct in basic motorcycle skills and control, it's impossible to replicate every real road situation, but what we do is give sound advice, dos and don'ts, examples, dvd's, real life experiences, time on a bike etc etc...the rest is up to the rider, and it's only real time on the bike that will hone those skills as well as exposure to the cockheads and riding conditions.
Been riding for 43 years, as you probably have too, and every time I get on the bike I know I'm going to face potential danger, but I hope that my skills and experience, as well as a good dose of luck, will get me home with a big grin on my face. But I know it's up to me to make that happen, and not rely on other drivers/riders saving my butt.
All this chest beating about 'never had a near miss' 'never had an accident' is just emu head in the sand stuff...it will happen. Old mate fenders is just kidding himself (and giving it a fair old tug too).
Peter.

[vfourfreak]

Slicks! That would scare the living dogsh!t outta me if I saw him on the road. Frisking pretenders!!! Think I might be tempted to walk past and intro my Kershaw to his sidewalls.

Back in the day, Yam TZs were being delivered with 3 groove Yokohama slicks that EVERYONE discarded immediately. I got a heap of them and fitted them to my RD400 on the road. What fun. Till it rained, or they did not heat up enough and I almost high sided. Lesson learned.

Road use needs proper road equipment. If you want to race, go racing properly.

Kev

[petercb750]

Slicks! That would scare the living dogsh!t outta me if I saw him on the road. Frisking pretenders!!! Think I might be tempted to walk past and intro my Kershaw to his sidewalls.

Back in the day, Yam TZs were being delivered with 3 groove Yokohama slicks that EVERYONE discarded immediately. I got a heap of them and fitted them to my RD400 on the road. What fun. Till it rained, or they did not heat up enough and I almost high sided. Lesson learned.

Road use needs proper road equipment. If you want to race, go racing properly.

Kev

Yeh, a few years ago a wanker in the hills near here was running slicks and thought he was really cool and ultra quick, until he rounded a bend with a small bit of water running across it....he's now looking down on us, very dead, wishing he had used more fkn brains. Maybe if he had ridden with all his 'professional riding' mates he would still be with us, cos apparently they don't have accidents or near misses.....

[Retro Rocket]

Pete, a mate of mine in Sydney was T boned by a goose on a bike at night riding without his headlight on, that was very messy and i can assure you Russel didn't see that one coming, there's so many variables its impossible to ride a motorcycle and not have near misses, I have them in my ute most days, especially on roundabouts, some people just can't work out how to drive a friggin car...

[petercb750]

For sure....
I drive 160km round trip commute every day, most days in my ute, and about two thirds of it on country roads.....I see stuff every single day that just leaves me shaking my head.
Bikes, cars, trucks...doesn't matter, there's nut cases in/on all of them.

[petercb750]

Peter - curious if you'd agree with the following:

Skills are what we use when we experience the need to perform a maneuver to ride safely that our judgement tells us is necessary, or out of the norm, which is the direct result of experiencing time in the saddle in actual riding conditions.

Any substitute for that formula that you know of?

I was with you in the first part, then got a bit confused,  but I think it seems fair enough. Really, any situation on the road that you find yourself in requires judgement and evaluation, then execution of skills, whether it be avoiding another vehicle, pothole or obstacle.
We have an acronym we use....SEE....search, evaluate,  execute.
But the execute part relies on you having the skills to make the bike do what you need it to. These, some of them being quite basic but surprisingly lacking in many riders, come with training and learning by experience, sometimes sadly the hard way.
I think that's sort of what you said anyway.

[grcamna2]

I think it'd be a nice idea if insurance companies offered big discounts for drivers if they would take a driver skills improvement course every so often;I wonder if some ins. co.'s do that ?

[HondanutRider]

I think it'd be a nice idea if insurance companies offered big discounts for drivers if they would take a driver skills improvement course every so often;I wonder if some ins. co.'s do that ?

Its getting less so unfortunately, but most insurance companies around here used to give new riders a break on their rates if they had taken a safety course to obtain their motorcycle endorsement for the second level (the "M2").  Some companies simply won`t insure the very first level of rider license (the "M1").

[BobbyR]

I think it'd be a nice idea if insurance companies offered big discounts for drivers if they would take a driver skills improvement course every so often;I wonder if some ins. co.'s do that ?

I and others have gotten credit for a defensive driving class on our car insurance for taking the MSF class.

[grcamna2]

Bobby,
That defensive driving class..,was it offered through New York state? do you think I can find one(a MSF?) around here in Pittsburgh ?

[ekpent]

I took an accredited course last summer because a buddy of mine was the instructor. Got a little discount on the insurance by flashing my card to my agent, but not much.

[dave500]

like any skill some people are naturals and others just don't get it,and never will?

[Retro Rocket]

Peter - curious if you'd agree with the following:

Skills are what we use when we experience the need to perform a maneuver to ride safely that our judgement tells us is necessary, or out of the norm, which is the direct result of experiencing time in the saddle in actual riding conditions.

Any substitute for that formula that you know of?

I was with you in the first part, then got a bit confused,  but I think it seems fair enough. Really, any situation on the road that you find yourself in requires judgement and evaluation, then execution of skills, whether it be avoiding another vehicle, pothole or obstacle.
We have an acronym we use....SEE....search, evaluate,  execute.
But the execute part relies on you having the skills to make the bike do what you need it to. These, some of them being quite basic but surprisingly lacking in many riders, come with training and learning by experience, sometimes sadly the hard way.
I think that's sort of what you said anyway.

Peter Peter Peter, how many times do I have to tell you, the last "E" in "SEE" is for execute alright but, its execute the m0r0ns that continually run over bike's that "they didn't see"....  Just thought I would clear that up for you mate...

[petercb750]

 
Haha, yeh, and that..

[BobbyR]

Bobby,
That defensive driving class..,was it offered through New York state? do you think I can find one(a MSF?) around here in Pittsburgh ?

No, I took the Advanced Rider MSF class locally. When I told the Insurance Company and sent a copy of my card, they gave me the Defensive Driver Discount on my Car Insurance.

[Bailgang]

Slicks! That would scare the living dogsh!t outta me if I saw him on the road. Frisking pretenders!!! Think I might be tempted to walk past and intro my Kershaw to his sidewalls.

I thought the slicks were pointless especially considering the rider didn't have any tire warmers on them. Everyone who walked by the bike just shook their head and walked away.

[BeSeeingYou]

This is in no way intended to disrespect fallen riders or families/friends of those who have died riding.

The statistics and scare tactics that people frequently cite and use don't bother me one bit. I'm still getting my bike. I believe that the majority of motorcyclists killed on the streets are #$%*ing #$%*s to begin with. I'm sure there have been very safe riders out there that were killed under poor circumstances where there was nothing they could do (hit by drunk driver etc.) but the exception doesn't make the rule. I have no experience riding yet, but I'm willing to put my life (as I will have to in order to ride) on the fact that if you wear the proper gear, educate and experience as much as you can on a bike (msf and beyond) and remain responsible, you will GREATLY (not completely) reduce much of the risk that is out there.

Again, I'm looking for a discussion here, I didn't post this topic to flame or make light of motorcycle accidents. What are your thoughts?

(and where do these so called 'scare tactics' come from? I know people who know people who know people who were killed but does that actually prove anything???)

Thanks.

- parakeet

What is your basis for making the statement I underlined in your post?  It shouldn't be too hard to research that and get the facts instead of what you "believe".  Then you can have a more accurate idea of what the risks are.  40% of accidents involving cars and bikes are the result of the car turning left in front of the bike.  My only accident was a variation on that when a driver turned right from middle lane of a one way street while I was in the right lane.  I had no chance.  I have been riding for 35 years and this is the only time I have ever gone down.  Close calls....I can recall some...none this year so far.....none last year...two the year before that.....certainly not 100's like some people claim.  That almost seems like a scare tactic in itself.  If I felt it was that bad I would have given it up long ago.  I have a lot of cross country miles under my belt.  I do not use my bike for commuting and I usually do not travel in heavy traffic even though I live in a large city.  It is strictly for pleasure and commuting in rush hour, freeway/interstates, and heavy traffic is not pleasurable.  I feel lucky to live in a city that has an extensive network of parkways, lake and river roads, and alternates to freeway travel that can get me around and out of the city in a relaxing manner.  I see it as mitigating the risk factors.  A lot of my miles these days are 300-400 mile round trips to the cabin...strictly rural driving.  I worry as much about  deer as I do about cars.    
   

[kghost]

like any skill some people are naturals and others just don't get it,and never will?

Dave sent me the link to this thread.

The premise that all men are equal.....doesn't mean we all have the same brains, skills, or reflexes.

[dave500]

some are just more equal than others?

[madmtnmotors]

The premise that all men are equal.....

Equal under the law... 

Especially the laws of physics and gravity!     

[Retro Rocket]

Close calls....I can recall some...none this year so far.....none last year...two the year before that.....certainly not 100's like some people claim.  That almost seems like a scare tactic in itself.  If I felt it was that bad I would have given it up long ago. 

Steve, I am telling you 100's of near misses, I am talking about the people that don't stop at the marked lines at the end of a street and look like they are coming straight out in front of you causing you to take evasive action, then the ones that do, I 'm talking about pot holes, people on phones changing lanes without looking, and people in general, changing lanes without looking even when i NEVER ride in their blind spot, i am talking about people that cut corners as they enter streets, i'm talking about cars not letting you in simply because they are bigger, Diesel spills, that is a real doozy, i can tell you, Items falling off trucks, most of my riding has been done in heavily populated area's and it was my main transport for over 20 years, doing motorcycle courier work in Sydney was a "take your life in your hands" experience every day, keeps you on your toes though and also teaches great bike control and awareness... My wife constantly comments that she can't believe what i see when driving the car, I thank riding bikes for that...

[grcamna2]

I'm glad you're still with us RR,I appreciate you man;if you can make it through those times in your life then you've gained valuable experience to help some of us be forewarned. 

[Retro Rocket]

I'm glad you're still with us RR,I appreciate you man;if you can make it through those times in your life then you've gained valuable experience to help some of us be forewarned. 

The real shame is that i know quite a few that didn't make it too....

[70CB750]

Here is one of my OC issues:

I never fill up motorcycle at a pump stand where there is diesel fuel next to gas fuel hose.  The logic is I don't want to roll through the spill diesel even in slow speed.