Topic: Oil Light then -clackclackclack- then Dead! (help please)

[RJ CB450]

I also like to pull apart oil filters.  I do it all vehicles, every oil change just to be sure.  Pretty noticable if something is being eaten with the fine metallic sheen.

[billingstitan]

That would explain the noise, but not the "...then nothing" for a restart. I'm leaning towards cam chain.

+1 -

I'm not versed enough to speculate what the damage might be - and I sincerely hope you get away with it being something simple ... but I'm not too optimistic.

I've seized a two-stroke and brought it back to life w/o too much heartache. Odds are a lot less in your favor w/ a four-stroke tho 

But I'll be happy for ya if I'm wrong!

[scottly]

Was riding home in a traffic jam (crawling) and the oil light came on and stayed on. I’d come to not trust the oil pressure light (see below) so I continued. After a few minutes, a ‘clackclackclack’ sound started and I pulled over.  The engine died on its own before I was off the road.  Oil level is fine, but smoke of burning oil poured out when I removed the cap to check. It seemed that the kickstart would not rotate the engine.

While pushing it home, I let some good Samaritans talk me into push start.  It started, but the clackclackclack noise convinced me to shut it down after 10 seconds and continue pushing towards home.

Not sure where you got "then nothing", Cal?
Nic-bot, will the kickstart rotate the motor, now that it has cooled off? Regarding the oil light, I was really expecting to see much more aluminum flakes in the pan on a motor that has an oil supply issue...

[Nik-bot]

I'm starting to guess a loose jam nut on a valve and that what might have been clattering. Pull those valve caps and just check for an uber loose rocker first.

Drats. I'd already loosened the nuts and started removing the cover - but I am pretty confident none of them were loose. They actually felt tighter than when I'd adjusted the valve clearance"

[scottly]

That's OK. How about rotating the motor with the kickstart? (with the rockers off you should remove the spark plugs)

[Nik-bot]

Nic-bot, will the kickstart rotate the motor, now that it has cooled off?...

Yes! I can kick the motor all the way through. It was only my first attempt after the shut-down where it felt stuck. After the push-start, it kicks through fine.

OK, here are the pics of the cam (more in the next post). I don't see anything obviously wrong... Do we dig deeper?  I have most of Saturday to dig in! 

NOTE: The 6 bolts securing the cover that were to have copper washers (not all of them did) did not come out normally.  Some were loose (like almost hand tight), others would unscrew easily for 1/2 turn and then resist the other 1/2, as if they were crooked?  And one of them simply broke off right where the threads start. Don't know how I'm gonna get that outta there. 

[Nik-bot]

rest of the pics

[Tews19]

I'm driving through and wish to watch the broken down bike if that is cool with cal? CoocooCal?  Possible new niickname? If the pic from below is indeed below,  where is the cam tensioner?  Unless my eyes are that bad at night I don't see it.

[scottly]

I don't see any catastrophic damage in the pics?

[Nik-bot]

...where is the cam tensioner?  Unless my eyes are that bad at night I don't see it.

Sorry, man - by the time I'm done each night it's dark out and I haven't got a garage - so the pics may not be very 'illuminating'. Tommorow I have most the day so if I can take another pic or check anything out to verify cam chain tensioner, I'll do it - point me in the right direction.   When it was running, I've tried the auto-adjustment of the cam chain tension (I had a lot of noise in this bike) previously but didn't notice any improvement...

[Tews19]

Lol Cal, coo coo Cal ! Not what you typed. There is a rapper by the name of that. You help everyone one in here with great detail and process. Coo coo is like cool cool... Ehh kinda hard to explain on a forum. It's all positive though.

[Tews19]

Hey this thought just hit me! I put on a dyna ignition recently. Went riding to test it...... After about 30 mikes I was at a light..... I heard your sound kind of. A higher tinging. I opened the points cover and the nut holding the ignition came loose. I had to re time but that was my issue. Might want to check.

[Nik-bot]

While you're out today in the light, kick the motor slowly and watch the cam rotate. See if there is any point at which it feels crunchy or hung up. If so, pictures. Without the rocker cover on, your valve train is disconnected, so those will need to be investigated manually...

Ok, the rotation feels the same all the way through - no hangs or crunches.  Here are some videos anyway, in case you see something:

Cyls 1-2 http://youtu.be/OWA_jEeT47k

Cyls 3-4 http://youtu.be/klGsVDI_c6Q

Without the rocker cover on, your valve train is disconnected, so those will need to be investigated manually...

How do I do this investigation?

Many of the rocker cover screw holes into the head look pretty buggered up, Nik, you likely need to tap those holes carefully to clean them.

OK, and the one that broke off inside of the hole?  Should I remove it and if so how?

I will check the other suggestions you and others gave as well..

[DavePhipps]

After watching your video I thought I should mention that you may want to have your sparkplugs out while doing that.

[Nik-bot]

It seem like we've reached a dead end.  hiss!  sizzle.. pfffffft...

I went back through the thread to see if I'd exhausted all options.

• valve springs and retainers:  all are stiff, in place, and uniform
• ignition timing plate: secure
• exhaust leak near head stud: could not see anything amiss
• cam tensioner not visible:  i poked a screwdriver up there where i expect the tensioner to be and i can feel a bar there. how can i check to see if the tensioner is present/intact?

Did I miss anything?  Is my only option now to button her back up and try to find a shop that will take her?

You all have been great - thanks for the remote assistance!  I"ve gained confidence just by exploring this, which is cool. 

PS: I have a "spare engine" that came with the bike, disassembled. I guess it wouldn't be wise for a noob like me to attempt a swap, not even knowing what the problem is with the current engine....

This bike is not that pretty and has stressed me with problems during our short relationship but I don't want to give up so easily - I WANT TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD!

[trueblue]

Check your rod bearings if you can.  You should be able to poke a screwdriver in there and see if there is any movement on the crank.  The only movement that should be there is rotational.  There should be no axial movement, noticable. 

[CB750F2]

Nik, I have just had a look at the photo of the valve gear cover - the one showing all the rockers. Is the adjusting screw for No,3 intake rocker missing? It is hard to tell from the photo and becomes very blurry when I zoom in. There also appears to be a shiny mark on that rocker arm that is not evident on the other rockers. Pat

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

In your one picture I'm seeing what appears to be 2 fresh 'scratches' in the metal where the cam chain would go through. Is there a chance your cam chain jumped some teeth, has the valve timing now off and possible a valve hitting a piston?

[Nik-bot]

Given that it's the weekend, some replies may be longer than weekdays as many are off riding 

 Oops- I forgot for a moment that I'm not the center of everyone's universe!
Tell you what - I'm giving you all Sunday off! 
I'll run through the latest suggestions and report back Monday night.

[scottly]

I just noticed the oil wells under the cam lobes were dry on one side of the cam, and wet on the other?

[Tews19]

Bottom pic looks to be pretty dry.

[Mcwilliams570]

In the second picture looks like the cam lobe is hitting the wall at the rounded part might be just the picture.

[Nik-bot]

I just noticed the oil wells under the cam lobes were dry on one side of the cam, and wet on the other?

It does appear that way in the photos, but one pic is taken from behind and one from in front, and the bike is tilted forward. I checked and the wells have the same amount of oil in all four.  Thank you.

[Nik-bot]

To all my crack team of motorcycle physicians - Life got in the way and I was unable to work on this last 1.5 days. I'll check all of your suggestions tonight.

One thing:  There have been a few suggestions to check the rod caps and rod bearings. I've squirmed around on my back looking up there with mirror and flashlight but I can't see how I could access the rod caps with only the oil pan removed. I feel really dumb. Is it really possible to access all four (or any of them) from below? If you tell me that it is, I'll keep trying...

[Nik-bot]

Today's update:

1) Check front sprocket: Chain and sprocket intact and no signs of wear against casing or cover
2) Better pics of inside of valve cover: attached to this and following post
3) Fresh scratches on metal where cam chain enters engine:  I could not see this. Will refer to photos and check again
4) Connecting Rod Ends/Bearings:  I have to admit a Fail here. While turning the engine, I could only check rod #3 (it was tight with no play). I'm sorry but I really could not see/access the rods for the other pistons.  Should I disassemble the engine further to check for damage there?

2 pics now more to follow...