Author Topic: Oil Light then -clackclackclack- then Dead! (help please) (Read 9378 times)

trueblue · « **Reply #75 on:** July 30, 2014, 05:16:28 AM »

Cal, you're a heck of a lot closer than I am.

Compression test will be interesting. The other thing that would be useful is a bore scope. Poke it down the plug hole and have a look-see.

calj737 · « **Reply #76 on:** July 30, 2014, 05:21:28 AM »

I dunno about that, he's on the Left Coast of the US. Their politics are far closer to Oz's than the Red State South's. Makes us worlds away

Of course, I jest (mostly). I hate flying anymore. If I could drive there in less than a day, then he's close enough. NorCal is not on my route, regrettably. And the only person I know near enough to him is my brother, and he couldn't tell you what a dipstick does, despite him being one.

Nik-bot · « **Reply #77 on:** July 30, 2014, 09:14:32 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 27, 2014, 05:39:04 AM

...Did you notice anything odd with the transmission while riding? Hard shifting, popping out of gear, won't return to Neutral?

I forgot to respond to the above question. There is a bit of funny business with the transmission. When downshifting from 2nd, it often drops directly into first. This seems to be more of an issue after the bike is warmed up.

Nik-bot · « **Reply #78 on:** July 30, 2014, 09:35:13 AM »

Quote from: trueblue on July 30, 2014, 04:39:49 AM

...I agree with Cal, put it back together and do a compression test and go from there.

That's what I'll do, then!

I'll report back. It might be a few days - my 10-year marriage anniversary is tomorrow so I'll not be out working on the bike.

calj737 · « **Reply #79 on:** July 30, 2014, 10:16:02 AM »

As a 20 year veteran, I'd recommend you not if you wish to see 11. Congrats!

Nik-bot · « **Reply #80 on:** August 16, 2014, 03:04:35 PM »

Hi All - I'm back. Had a really busy few weeks and could only put in an hour here and there.

To recap: My CB550 lost oil pressure, overheated, and seemed to seize. With the help of this forum, I looked inside but the expected signs of catastrophic failure were not present.

So, I put her back together and fired her up. Here is a video so you can hear the scary sound she makes. Wait until i rev it to around 2,500.

http://youtu.be/lJ3PEXqOrLI

Perhaps hearing this will help you more than my description.

Please tell me what you think and let me know if any additional information/video/etc. could help.

Thanks!

Don R · « **Reply #81 on:** August 16, 2014, 03:15:53 PM »

I'm guessing a rod bearing is gone south, could be a piston. Either way not easily repairable.

brandEn · « **Reply #82 on:** August 16, 2014, 03:24:22 PM »

That sounds like a rod bearing. I spun a rod bearing and thats what it sounded like.

billingstitan · « **Reply #83 on:** August 16, 2014, 07:04:25 PM »

My condolences

trueblue · « **Reply #84 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:31:31 AM »

Definately sounds like a rod bearing, next step would be romove the engine, flip it over and split the cases. After all the previous investigations you have already done, this is your only real option to find the problem. $:-\$

Nik-bot · « **Reply #85 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:50:39 AM »

$:-\$
Given that the full sum of my motorcycle engine experience is present in this thread, I have the distinct feeling that I'm getting in over my head. Is this something for a backyard neophyte to tackle?

70CB750 · « **Reply #86 on:** August 18, 2014, 11:00:54 AM »

What is there to lose? You can only gain - experience and eventually rebuild engine.

calj737 · « **Reply #87 on:** August 18, 2014, 11:31:52 AM »

Quote from: Nik-bot on August 18, 2014, 10:50:39 AM

$:-\$
Given that the full sum of my motorcycle engine experience is present in this thread, I have the distinct feeling that I'm getting in over my head. Is this something for a backyard neophyte to tackle?

Is it do-able? Yes. But you do need a few specialty tools and a good deal of organization. A comprehensive manual is necessary too.

If you are at all intimidated, there's no shame in dropping the motor to an automotive machine shop that's reputable and familiar with motorcycles, and ask them to disassemble it for you. You can source parts, do some other tasks, and have them reassemble. No need to feel obligated, but as 70CB said, the worst you can do is make a mistake that someone else fixes.

If you do pursue it, take copious amounts of pictures, label them, and get lots of bins, baggies and labeling tape and document everything you do. It will help immeasurably upon reassembly later. You can do this. Just got to overcome your trepidation. And there's heaps of blokes here to look after you while you do it.

Schnell · « **Reply #88 on:** August 18, 2014, 12:51:32 PM »

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”
― Henry Ford

billingstitan · « **Reply #89 on:** August 18, 2014, 02:16:53 PM »

I would just look for a new engine personally - do your research, find a reputable seller and make the swap. Easy weekend project ... Bearings? Not so much - at least not for me. Tolerances are too tight - too many variables - I can do a lot on these bikes, but the bottom end is where I have to draw the line (that's what she said, lol)

Nik-bot · « **Reply #90 on:** August 18, 2014, 09:08:46 PM »

Quote from: 70CB750 on August 18, 2014, 11:00:54 AM

...What is there to lose?...

Good question! Upon thinking about it, I came to know that what I'm really afraid of losing is the rest of Summer! I tend to take a long time to work through new things. Ten Parts Read/Study/Think to One Part Action. BUT! - I can try to change that...

Nik-bot · « **Reply #91 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:00:27 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on August 18, 2014, 11:31:52 AM

Is it do-able? Yes. But you do need a few specialty tools and a good deal of organization. A comprehensive manual is necessary too.

Yeah? OK. I'm inspired by that encouragement

. But first...

Comprehensive Manual: Will my Clymer manual do? Lots of stuff I've seen on this forum is not in the manual (assembly lube, methods for torquing during re-assembly, always do this, never do that). If the Clymer is not enough, which should I get?

Specialty Tools: Here's what it seems I'll need. Can you confirm?

piston ring compressor tool
cylinder gauge
micrometer
puller for alternator motor
inside dial gauge

And can I leave the valves alone? If not, it seems that there's a whole 'nother set of tools...

What else should I check while it's torn down?

What should I replace regardless while it's torn down?

~seriously considering it....

70CB750 · « **Reply #92 on:** August 19, 2014, 02:57:42 AM »

You can download shop manual from here:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0

Never had Clymer, shop manual is usually better, but every manual I ever had in my hand and used - including T-55 in Russian language

- had mistakes and you still need to use your head to get it done.

Tools:

- ring compressor - I used hose clamp with edges sanded smooth, there are people who do it just with fingers
- cylinder gauge, inside dial gauge and micrometer - you can find it at Enco and/or Grizzly at decent price/quality
- alternator puller, hmm, somebody here makes them and sells them for decent price, but I am not sure now what you need for your bike. Often they are just big bolt with the correct thread, the shop manual should tell you, Clymer likely too.

You can always outsource measurements, local shop could check things for you. Sometimes it is the easier way, since using precision measuring instruments is a skill too and takes time to develop.

Understand, I am not trying to talk you into some adventure here, nobody but you knows your ability - did you ever wrench on something? Setting seat height on a bicycle is not really wrenching - even though technically you are using a wrench to do it

If you decide to do it, take your time, sort your parts - egg cartons, zip locks, containers, sharpie and labels, take pictures. It helps to have it laid out on a work table if you have the space.

Questions: take it one step at a time, ask questions relevant to what you are doing now, there is a lot of people here eager to help you succeed.

What to replace while it's torn down? My crystal ball is little foggy this morning

you will not know till you take it apart.

Good luck!

calj737 · « **Reply #93 on:** August 19, 2014, 03:57:19 AM »

Quote from: Nik-bot on August 18, 2014, 10:00:27 PM

Comprehensive Manual: Will my Clymer manual do?
There's no single manual that will cover everything, and some conflict with others. Upon re-assembly, best advice is to read the Clymers, read the Honda manual, and then ask if you're confused/unsure.

And yes, you do need to re-torque your head, but do it while it's out of the frame, after a 24 hour sit. Then install once.

Specialty Tools: Here's what it seems I'll need. Can you confirm?
piston ring compressor tool
or homemade version as referenced above
cylinder gauge
micrometer
a good set of calipers is always needed in these bikes.
puller for alternator motor
or as referenced above
inside dial gauge
don't forget to buy a quality torque wrench. Don't cheap out here, it will cost you lots more to fix what cheap torque wrenches break than to buy a quality wrench. Your choice to measure specs yourself, or take the pieces in question to a machine shop for verification. Save the labor for yourself that you can do, let the pros do things you are unsure about.

And can I leave the valves alone? If not, it seems that there's a whole 'nother set of tools... only an inspection can tell you for certain. If your engine lost oil pressure, then threw a bearing, it's rather possibly there may be upper end damage. Valves might just want a cleaning and lapping. Spring compressors can be made DIY pretty cheaply.

What else should I check while it's torn down? pistons/rings and their cylinders. When disassembling, put everything back where it came from, specifically. Pistons and rings stay with same cylinder. Bearings from exact location. Rods, rod bolts, with crank location. Safer this way.

What should I replace regardless while it's torn down? primary chain in the bottom end is a common target. If you can, avoid damaging the cam chain upon removal and then it can be re-used, or simply replace it too. These chains are about $250 combined in parts IIRC.

~seriously considering it....

Take your time, use the proper sequence for disassembly and removal from the frame, and it's actually pretty easy. When you're unsure, read or ask.

billingstitan · « **Reply #94 on:** August 23, 2014, 11:50:11 PM »

Do whatev your heart tells ya -

But having just went thru this, those bearings aren't cheap - and the extraneous stuff adds up quick. THEN you are also banking on getting a pretty f'n complicated project right without experience.

Some of these guys can do em in their sleep- but I've seen pretty good mechanics pull apart cases a dozen times trying to get things right.

For me, I knew what my personal limits were - if I was retired I'd consider giving it a shot on this ol 550 engine I spun a bearing on this summer.

But, shoot - I like to wrench alright - but I like to ride a lot more. $579 got me a 77 CB550 engine delivered in four days from a salvage guy w 22000 positive feedback. Only 19000 miles - runs great - and I've had my bike all summer. Still have the other engine on a pallet ... Maybe one of these days I will jump in ... Top ends are pretty feasible, but those bottom ends are complex.

I'm in awe on these guys that can work on them

martin99 · « **Reply #95 on:** August 24, 2014, 12:44:23 AM »

Quote from: billingstitan on August 23, 2014, 11:50:11 PM

Do whatev your heart tells ya -

But having just went thru this, those bearings aren't cheap - and the extraneous stuff adds up quick. THEN you are also banking on getting a pretty f'n complicated project right without experience.

Some of these guys can do em in their sleep- but I've seen pretty good mechanics pull apart cases a dozen times trying to get things right.

For me, I knew what my personal limits were - if I was retired I'd consider giving it a shot on this ol 550 engine I spun a bearing on this summer.

But, shoot - I like to wrench alright - but I like to ride a lot more. $579 got me a 77 CB550 engine delivered in four days from a salvage guy w 22000 positive feedback. Only 19000 miles - runs great - and I've had my bike all summer. Still have the other engine on a pallet ... Maybe one of these days I will jump in ... Top ends are pretty feasible, but those bottom ends are complex.

I'm in awe on these guys that can work on them

Late into this one, not much experience with a 550 but FWIW after listening to the clip I'd go along with rod bearing too.

Now if it were mine, I would just dive in because that's what I've always done. Bit OCD like that, if something breaks I've got to investigate what went wrong and fix it.

Billingstitan has a point though. When I think about it, I've spent countless hours (and $$$) in the garage refusing to let something beat me, when I could have been out riding. As I get older, I'm less inclined to get my hands dirty or waste time, hence this week my car went to the garage for service (first time I haven't done it myself) and I even paid some guys to handwash it whilst I sat inside playing on my phone.

My take is, if you want to learn how to do it then dive in, nothing more satisfying than starting it back up after all the hard work. But if the experience isn't that important to you, a second-hand motor could well be the cheapest and least hassle option. These days I think even I might be seriously considering the latter (Naw, who am I trying to kid?

)

Good luck with it whichever way you go.

Nik-bot · « **Reply #96 on:** July 11, 2015, 04:36:34 PM »

Just from listening to the engine run in my earlier video, the consensus on this forum was that I spun a rod bearing. You guys nailed it.

I couldn't stop thinking about the poor bike in the back yard and decided to tear into it.

The video (link below) might not show it very well, but the the con rod for piston #4 has a lot of lateral movement.

I'll be asking for help as I work through this but so far have been able to find all my answers on this forum and the manuals.

Thanks for getting me this far!

754 · « **Reply #97 on:** July 11, 2015, 05:25:49 PM »

If it's a rod.. It had pressure cold, then as it warms it would start losing it.....

A bit like he described.. Thanks. Would try to see if the big end of a rod is loose if you can reach them..
If the rod bearing did go out rapidly there would be metal in the oil.. I just pour the oil across a piece of inclined carboard..same piece I use under the oil tank of. 750. Then I lay the filter on it to drain out. With the cardboard at a 10-15 degree angle.. You'll see it on the cardboard or the filter housing if it was a rapid failure..

Don R · « **Reply #98 on:** July 12, 2015, 06:42:21 PM »

Check all bearings and clean everything several times. With luck you can find a new rod and hopefully the crank isn't smoked.

turboed13b · « **Reply #99 on:** July 12, 2015, 09:50:41 PM »

I would just pick up a cheap $100 motor off of craigslist. I can swap motors within a couple of hours shouldn't take you no more than an afternoon to do it.

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Author Topic: Oil Light then -clackclackclack- then Dead! (help please) (Read 9378 times)