Topic: Electrical Issue After Solid State RR Install - CB400f

[sleutho]

I just installed a Rick's SS R/R and am now having an electrical issue.  When I finished installing it and hooked up the battery, the negative lead was arcing.  I unplugged the R/R connector and hooked the battery up, then when I tried to connect the connector, it was arcing at the connector.  I also noticed that the red wire going between the battery and the R/R was really hot. I don't really understand how a R/R works, so I don't know where to start checking. 

With the R/R connector disconnected but the battery connected, there is no heat or anything, so there isn't a short between the R/R and the connector.  Could something be wrong with the R/R?  Is there another obvious place I could have an issue?

[calj737]

Can you provide me some details about exactly how you wired the RR into your stock bike? Pictures too please.

[gto_ron]

+ what calj said.

  As long as the wire color codes match on either side of the connector it's kinda hard to mess this one up.  You should have
3 yellows
1 black
1 white
1 green
1 red
 
If there is an extra green it goes to a good ground, usually on the frame.

regards

[dave500]

I hope not but you might've ruined the new rec/reg from reversed polarity?

[Bodi]

Two possibilities - the unit is defective, or it is connected wrong.
I haven't tried this RR unit. Others have with success so it isn't a normal problem in the unit.
You should have:
3 yellow wires for the alternator output coils.
a black wire for the switched ignition power in the harness (black harness wire) to supply the unit's working power and probably for voltage sensing (that might be from the battery wire).
a heavyish red wire to go to the battery to send the charging current through.
a green ground wire to connect to the frame securely, heavyish if the unit doesn't ground via its mounting bolts - the charging current also goes to ground.
a white and probably a green wire for the alternator field coil.

Check the installation instructions carefully, Rick doesn't seem to have this available for download. Possibly you need to find the field coil ground wire, disconnect it from ground, and connect it directly to an RR wire.

If anything was hooked up backwards (likely cause of sparking and hot wires) the RR was almost certainly destroyed.

[sleutho]

Sorry for no response, it turns out that I am an idiot and hooked it up with reverse polarity.  I installed a new battery at the same time and failed to notice that the the connections were on the opposite sides for every other motorcycle battery I have had.  I know I fried the R/R because after I connected it correctly and got the bike running, the voltage was jumping all over the place - 10-20V.  I'm hoping that the battery and electronic ignition are ok. 

When I hooked up the battery wrong, the key was off so the ignition shouldn't have been fried, right? Would the varying voltage of a fried regulator damage it? I let it warm up for 5 min or so before checking the voltage.  And how would I check the battery? Is a simple motorcycle off voltage check ok, or should I take it into an autoparts store?

[calj737]

Ignition may have survived. Is the bike "running well" notwithstanding the voltage fluctuations due to the RR?

To measure the battery, key off, measure resting voltage. Should be 12.4 or greater depending upon battery type. Ideally, charge the battery to its maximum voltage, let rest 2 hours off the charger, then test the residual voltage of the battery. If it's held its charge, then you're probably pretty safe.

Takes a few "mistakes" to learn that BLACK on your bike is power and GREEN is ground. You're not the first to reverse the polarity, nor will you be the last.

[sleutho]

Unfortunately on my bike, black is positive and black is negative for the battery cables, and grey is positive and grey is negative on the new battery.  The battery was at 12.6V right after I shut it off, but I haven't checked since.  The bike ran pretty fine, maybe not quite as good as it had before, other than the flickering of the running  lights. Hopefully I didn't destroy the Dana S, new coils, or new battery I just put on.

[calj737]

Might I suggest you wrap some color tape around the NEG and POS leads in immediately identifiable colors? Might save you some $ later

[dave500]

now you tell us,that's why I don't get too involved in electrical threads I have to see it as theres always too many wrong colours to explain.

[sleutho]

Might I suggest you wrap some color tape around the NEG and POS leads in immediately identifiable colors? Might save you some $ later

That is not a bad idea...I'll make sure to do that when I install the new R/R

[Bodi]

This is a rather common problem. Just about every bike battery size comes with two versions just reversing the terminal polarities. I'm pretty sure most Hondas came with red "+" battery cables, was yours replaced with black cable?

[sleutho]

I have no idea what happened to it then. All I know is that both cables are very short and are not in good shape.  I'll be re-wiring the bike this winter because the wiring is mostly pretty messed up. 

I just installed the new R/R today, and rode it around only to find that I still have some issues.

First, I checked the voltage of the battery before starting, which was at 12.6V. Then I checked voltage at idle, which was jumping all over the place.  I realized that it was because of the electrical noise of the bike, so I held the multimeter as far away as I could and measured again, and it was a steady 12.25V, and jumped up to 13.0V as soon a i gave it a little gas.  I figured it was idling a little low (it was still warming up) which caused the low voltage reading. So I rode around and it was running great.

Then I noticed as I was coming home, I noticed the turn signal running lights were getting dim, so I turned the headlight off (I have a button rigged in the headlight circuit) and they got pretty bright but were flickering a bit.  Then it started getting closer to dying as I was getting close to home, so I left the headlight off for the last few blocks. Checked running voltage with headlight off which was 12.2V, then battery voltage right after turning it off, which was 12.15V.

I have a couple different thoughts as to what may be wrong. I just installed a Dyna S, so that is using ~1 extra amp/12V over stock, plus I have a 45W headlight, so another 15W/1A over stock. I also have a smaller than stock battery, so maybe I am draining the battery really fast? Or maybe I am heating up the ignition switch because of too much current? Or is it possible that I fried my stator/rotor when I hooked the battery up like an idiot?  Is there a way to inspect the charging system?

[calj737]

Use this:

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[Bodi]

Reverse voltage won't harm anything except the r/r and possibly the wiring connecting it to the battery. And maybe the starter safety diode.
I recommend checking the bullet connectors for corrosion and subsequent overheating. On the 400 there is a set of connections for the alternator under the left engine cover (sprocket and oil pump cover): these are subject to engine heat and are prone to corrosion - they carry a lot of current so corrosion rapidly leads to overheating... the female ends lose their "spring" and the clear cover sleeves get burned black. At that point the connectors are not salvageable, it's easiest to just solder the wires together and use heat shrink to insulate the join.
The rest of the bullets in the harness should be checked, and would benefit from cleaning and a bit of re-tensioning on the female ends. Any blackened ones should be replaced.
The engine and fuseblock connectors use spade terminals, these can be cleaned as well.
Check inside the fuseblock - unscrew it and the back snaps off. The fuse clips are past their best-before date by now (the plating doesn't last much beyond 15 years) and the increased contact resistance causes heating - this tends to melt or crystalize the solder connections in back and the wire connection gets sketchy. There are replacement plug-compatible fuseblocks available that use modern mini fuses - a good investment.

[dave500]

reversed polarity can also fry the green earth wire wrapped within the loom taking out and shorting with other wires wrapped up with it.

[sleutho]

Ok, well yesterday wass probably the last riding day of the year before the temp drops and the salt comes out, so I'll be sure to fix any issues with the charging and ground wiring over the winter.  I'll also be replacing some of the lights on the bike with LED's so hopefully I can get the power draw down to the levels that the charging system can handle.  Its good to know that I didn't fry the charging system. Thanks for the help!