Author Topic: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?  (Read 11707 times)

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Offline FunJimmy

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Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:57:25 AM »
The winter doldrums are starting to freeze my brain so it’s time to heat things up a bit. I considered starting another oil thread but fear the mods would toss me off the board for all eternity so the destruction of historical artifacts seemed like a safer topic. LOL

I recently responded to a comment in another thread taking aim at custom bike builder’s blatant disregard for vintage Hondas while chopping and modifying. While I see the point, in my opinion, it's flawed for several reasons. Firstly, Honda produced thousands and thousands of CB500-550 and CB750 motorcycles in the 1970's and shipped them all over the world so they ain't becoming extinct anytime soon. Many of those old motorcycles have been left abandoned, decaying, deteriorating and often ground up in recycling facilities. The rise in popularity, whether due to the customization or for the collector has added value to an otherwise worthless heap of metal, increasing the likelihood of preservation. The cafe trend will pass and restoration will prevail. In the end, more original vintage Honda's will be saved and returned to service than if the custom crowd never flourished in the first place. Just an opinion.

Point?
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Offline calj737

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2015, 12:01:54 PM »
+1. Add to that, the styling "updates" some do to their 40 year old machine give a new lease on life to an otherwise abandoned, delapidated hunk of rust. Beautifully restored machines flourish in value when "custom" bike abound. Win-win as I see it.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline rocs

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 12:02:24 PM »
The only reason I will chop up a SOHC4 is because it is so far gone that it can't be preserved. Otherwise, I think they should only be modified if they can be returned to the stock condition. This is just my own personal opinion.

If you want to look at it from a financial standpoint, the more people chop up these vintage bikes, the more rare your unmodified bike will gain in value because of its rarity.
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Offline Don R

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 12:05:19 PM »
 Any interest is a good thing. If there is a market for parts someone hopefully will make them whether they go on a custom or a stocker. Besides, every one that melts down makes mine more rare. lol.
 It did annoy me to see a guy on TV toss around some parts I can't afford to buy. He could have called me first.
 My brother and I rebuilt some parts bikes and some other guys part out some nice ones. I guess it works out.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 12:07:06 PM »
Don't get me wrong, If I had a bike worth restoring to factory I would!!! Instead I find mediocre bases and make them perform and handle better than anything honda produced in that era. I found a drive to modify these bikes and love riding them in their bare form. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: In the end I still make sure they are recognizable as what they are, Honda SOHC4's.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 12:11:13 PM by Trad »
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Offline strynboen

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 12:30:58 PM »
i like a cafee

..buy it hurt me to hack on any vintage bike..i have tryed on a cb 500 t twin..but it vent most stock...so this time i faund a geely 150..this time i can do it vith no tears ...cut brat and do all the things ...vith no harm to history...


my favorite are to mix years parts from honda..to make  my perfekt bike...but vith honda parts..like small turn signals ...like flat seat..not that step up for passenger...muffler gaiters on forks maim light ear vith refleks....most erly er parts on my 1978 550..if it have to look perfekt...but often i end to put it stock..thange parts ...hvere to stop...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 12:35:54 PM by strynboen »
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Offline Nuffsa Fugginnuff

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2015, 12:47:32 PM »
Isn't it just the way 'bikers' have always changed/modded their, or their mates bikes? Not happy with: power, suspension, looks. As to the question of 'destroying historical artifacts' that's a pretty subjective question/statement.

I've got no problems 'hacking' into a frame and/or engine from 750/4's of yesteryear, even RD's, Nortons, Vincents et al, to build a cafe/streetfighter bike, the caveat being that the donor bike/frame/engine is in pieces, or was bound for the wreckers. If it was Concours d'elegance standard then by all means look, but don't touch.
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Offline socal1200r

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2015, 12:56:25 PM »
Here in Virginia, one can register a bike or car as an antique if it's 25 years old or older.  The advantage of that is, said vehicles are now exempt from the yearly safety inspections, and you pay a one-time DMV fee for that antique plate. 

My 1979 CB650 and 1987 Cagiva 650 Alazzurra are both registered as antiques.  With these older bikes, I'm finding it's much more of a challenge to keep it stock or return it to stock, as opposed to doing some customizations to it.  The other day, I was in a local dealership, and they had these cool-looking LED turn signals.  I thought they'd look good on the CB, but then realized they'd stick out like a sore thumb, mixing the modern with the antique, so I left those big old rectangular orange-lensed turn signals alone. 

Some period-correct mods would be okay, like a 4-1 pipe like I have on the CB, or maybe some Bub mufflers like I have on the Cagiva.  But to totally change one of these antique bikes into something it's not, I'm not buying into that.  Doing a "resto-mod" on an antique bike might work, depending on what's involved (i.e. modern tires, s/s brake lines, more modern shocks, etc).  But doing something like a dual-disc upside-down front fork upgrade, smooth-bore carbs, different style wheels, etc, is not something I'd do.  But hey, to each their own, and more power to 'em.   

Now, with that being said, there's a 1982 KZ750 CSR (parallel twin) that's for sale locally, which would make for a great cafe bike conversion, as opposed to keeping it stock, lol...

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2015, 01:02:59 PM »
Here in Virginia, one can register a bike or car as an antique if it's 25 years old or older.  The advantage of that is, said vehicles are now exempt from the yearly safety inspections, and you pay a one-time DMV fee for that antique plate. 

We have a similar opportunity to register as a collector but the bike MUST be stock or no go.
I tried to apply with the Interceptor having period correct mods, but that didn't fly.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2015, 01:04:15 PM »
Where's the strong opposition here?

Maybe this will get you boiling.





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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2015, 01:17:35 PM »
I don't have a problem with functiional upgrades and changes, if it works good, it looks good.

I want to play with the K0, she is too far to restore and I would love the challenge of a side mount swingarm, we shall see :)
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Offline calj737

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 01:25:08 PM »
Where's the strong opposition here?

Maybe this will get you boiling.





Bye bye!
Have you been filming me, Jimmy!?!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline ekpent

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 01:26:46 PM »
There are plenty of junk old Honda's and other Jap bikes out there that can get a new lease on life by being built into a nice quality custom of some kind and with low entry price points can bring some younger folks into the fold. Once they reach a certain point its not really cost effective for a total resto anyways. Plus really not my business what somebody wants to do with their machine and money.  Plenty of bikes are getting restored at the same time the junkers are getting turned back into riders so it balances out.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 04:14:50 PM by ekpent »

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 01:35:20 PM »
Have you been filming me, Jimmy!?!

You and all the rest of us Cal.
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Offline przjohn

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 01:39:11 PM »
They don't call them, "Hack Saws" without a reason. A true, 100% restoration of a classic bike is a rebirth.
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2015, 02:24:05 PM »
I think I made the comment that started this thread...here is what I was trying to say...if you are going to modify your bike, do some quality work, make it rideable and useful, don't start hacking before you even know how to ride, don't start hacking before you have the skill, knowledge, resources, and money to finish what you started.  All of this is true of restorations also.  Taking a clean, unrestored, survivor and tearing it down and polishing, painting and powdercoating it into some kind of reproduction trailer queen is just as bad in my opinion.  If you don't like old stuff, get a new bike. 
     This forum has always had a really positive vibe...you meet the nicest people on a Honda, right?  I think there are a lot of members here who are not really being honest and not really calling bull#$%* when they see it.  I know I have to hold my tongue a lot.  Maybe it is for the best.  Maybe not.  I really appreciate when someone older or more experienced says to me, "hey, don't do that, your gonna ruin it..." because they know it's true because they already made the same mistake 20 or 30 years ago...even if they end the sentence with "...ya stupid little #$%*."  If you slow down and think about #$%* for just a few minutes, you will likely realize that they have a point. ::)











...and out of the 10 motorcycles I own there is not one that I haven't modified or intend to modify.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2015, 02:26:53 PM »
I like when they can be modified w/o having to 'hack' the frame or tabs.That way any mods you do can be reversed if you choose.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2015, 02:45:48 PM »
I'm on the fence about some things,
 Although I like stock Honda machines, I don't like stock paint so much and only mimic it when painting tanks.
  I do like to mix years on parts between 500/550/650, either to gain HP, improve handling, or just to make it a little different than the last one. but all can be reversed.
  I have cut 2  500/550 frames so far, one for snowbike,meld a snowmobile and 550 together, which was kind of a success but it doesn't change the fact that winter still sucks. The second was an attempt at crossing a KZ 250 dirt bike with a 500.... a complete failure because I only realized at mock up time that I hated it and there was no going back. So there's two frames that can't go back to stock and I have had deep regrets, the almost overpowering dirty feeling of guilt, so much so that all the rosary beads in Italy couldn't cleanse this soul  . Damn awful feeling to have when I look at something I created , or destroyed... depending how you look at it, what a waste, anyways , wouldn't want anyone to feel that way about their project.But there's always that possibility.
   Every night on CL I see a hundred people trying to sell what they fcuked up. I'll admit to screwing up, but I'm not trying to sell it to anyone.
  Seems like every Jackwagon that buys a cheap Honda thinks that a sawzall should be in the toolkit under the seat. Then, because a fuse is blown they should start looking for the wiring trouble in the headlight, but they are usually too fcukin stupid to figure out the wires unplug and are color coded so they cut them off , then don't understand why this piece of sh1t don't run because there's no power to the starter still. But no big deal , someone will know how to simplify the wiring  like on a track bike...let's make it real simple, no headlight
or blinkers....only ride in the daytime anyways. Yeah. Well now that it's a track bike, it needs rear controls and some clamp on handlebars just above the fender on the flattened out fork tube that also sticks up 4 inches out of the top of upper tree. So no knee dents for this project because the  riders knees now drag across the pavement so in order to reach the low, low bars, we now discover a new craze, the belly dent. Dent the top of the tank and you can ride lower. Great now you can reach the bars and rest your chin on the cap as you ride, lessening rider fatigue. But the gauges are in the way now, no worries ,no there's micro digital  display that you can mount on the  neck mounting nut. This also has a GPS app for those daring enough to ride this thing more than 3 miles from the house... they'll need it to get back home for sure. I don't care if they have Avon track tires or Goodyear truck tires on it ......Cripes, on a rant now , thanks FJ.
 So No, I don't like cut frames.
  Oh yeah and +1 seanbarney.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 02:56:09 PM by rb550four »
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2015, 02:59:00 PM »
I think I made the comment that started this thread...here is what I was trying to say...if you are going to modify your bike, do some quality work, make it rideable and useful, don't start hacking before you even know how to ride, don't start hacking before you have the skill, knowledge, resources, and money to finish what you started.  All of this is true of restorations also.  Taking a clean, unrestored, survivor and tearing it down and polishing, painting and powdercoating it into some kind of reproduction trailer queen is just as bad in my opinion.  If you don't like old stuff, get a new bike. 
     This forum has always had a really positive vibe...you meet the nicest people on a Honda, right?  I think there are a lot of members here who are not really being honest and not really calling bull#$%* when they see it.  I know I have to hold my tongue a lot.  Maybe it is for the best.  Maybe not.  I really appreciate when someone older or more experienced says to me, "hey, don't do that, your gonna ruin it..." because they know it's true because they already made the same mistake 20 or 30 years ago...even if they end the sentence with "...ya stupid little #$%*."  If you slow down and think about #$%* for just a few minutes, you will likely realize that they have a point. ::)











...and out of the 10 motorcycles I own there is not one that I haven't modified or intend to modify.

Nice patina bike, that aged and bears witness to the process is imho nicer than museum level restoration, like a living creature to a stuffed animal.
Prokop
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Online Stev-o

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2015, 02:59:19 PM »
In my opinion, the only SOHC bike that could be considered a "historical artifact" is the Sandcast.
I dont think any of us agree that it would be a good idea to hack up one of those, even if it was in poor condition [good luck finding a affordable one].

Yes, it's been done on the cafe TV show, those guys obviously are not as passionate about SOHC's as we are.

There were literally over 600,000 CB750's manufactured, they arent going away in our lifetime. I have six of them, none are bone stock, the only true stocker I had was a nice K8, but I didnt care for it so it was sold off last year.

Like we always say, it's your bike do whatever you want with it.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2015, 03:03:32 PM »
Here is the thing, Stev-o, if the forum acts as a critique to some extent, it may help the builder summarize his reasons and be better for it.

Does it make sense?
Prokop
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Sidecar


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Offline drkush

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2015, 03:22:01 PM »
I resonantly joined this site and am currently building a CB 750 K0 and I know a lot of you are going to hate me for this but I'm doing a lot of mods to the bike ( but I do have all the original parts ) I would have Loved to have done a restore but being on a fixed low income I just want to get the bike up and running


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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2015, 03:24:40 PM »
Doing great job, drkush!

Looking closer, was the frame hacked like that under the tank?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 03:26:36 PM by 70CB750 »
Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

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CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 03:26:08 PM »
I'm on the fence about some things,
 Although I like stock Honda machines, I don't like stock paint so much and only mimic it when painting tanks.
  I do like to mix years on parts between 500/550/650, either to gain HP, improve handling, or just to make it a little different than the last one. but all can be reversed.
  I have cut 2  500/550 frames so far, one for snowbike,meld a snowmobile and 550 together, which was kind of a success but it doesn't change the fact that winter still sucks. The second was an attempt at crossing a KZ 250 dirt bike with a 500.... a complete failure because I only realized at mock up time that I hated it and there was no going back. So there's two frames that can't go back to stock and I have had deep regrets, the almost overpowering dirty feeling of guilt, so much so that all the rosary beads in Italy couldn't cleanse this soul  . Damn awful feeling to have when I look at something I created , or destroyed... depending how you look at it, what a waste, anyways , wouldn't want anyone to feel that way about their project.But there's always that possibility.
   Every night on CL I see a hundred people trying to sell what they fcuked up. I'll admit to screwing up, but I'm not trying to sell it to anyone.
  Seems like every Jackwagon that buys a cheap Honda thinks that a sawzall should be in the toolkit under the seat. Then, because a fuse is blown they should start looking for the wiring trouble in the headlight, but they are usually too fcukin stupid to figure out the wires unplug and are color coded so they cut them off , then don't understand why this piece of sh1t don't run because there's no power to the starter still. But no big deal , someone will know how to simplify the wiring  like on a track bike...let's make it real simple, no headlight
or blinkers....only ride in the daytime anyways. Yeah. Well now that it's a track bike, it needs rear controls and some clamp on handlebars just above the fender on the flattened out fork tube that also sticks up 4 inches out of the top of upper tree. So no knee dents for this project because the  riders knees now drag across the pavement so in order to reach the low, low bars, we now discover a new craze, the belly dent. Dent the top of the tank and you can ride lower. Great now you can reach the bars and rest your chin on the cap as you ride, lessening rider fatigue. But the gauges are in the way now, no worries ,no there's micro digital  display that you can mount on the  neck mounting nut. This also has a GPS app for those daring enough to ride this thing more than 3 miles from the house... they'll need it to get back home for sure. I don't care if they have Avon track tires or Goodyear truck tires on it ......Cripes, on a rant now , thanks FJ.
 So No, I don't like cut frames.
  Oh yeah and +1 seanbarney.

This is priceless. Thanks
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2015, 04:54:36 PM »
Must..not..type..true..feelings. Damn you Jimmy.  ::)