Author Topic: Seeley 519 (Read 46138 times)

01Thomas · « **Reply #100 on:** February 12, 2015, 01:45:10 PM »

I'll check it again but I don't think that 0.5mm makes much of a difference when everything is tightened up.

Quote from: jaguar on February 10, 2015, 04:49:25 PM

you got 30.7mm for the OD of the adjustor?
I had 30.2mm for the ID of the swing arm. Bought some 30mm OD round bar alloy to make the adjustors.
Do you think the .5mm difference is to much or should the adjustor be more toleranced to the ID of the arm?

jaguar · « **Reply #101 on:** February 12, 2015, 06:28:27 PM »

Yeah I can't see the .5mm being a critical tolerance.
Other adjusters are just rings inside box tube.

scottly · « **Reply #102 on:** February 12, 2015, 06:29:29 PM »

I would try to fit the adjuster as close as possible to the ID of the tube. When the axle is tightened, the tube is squeezed down on the slug, maybe .005-.010", locking the whole swing-arm and axle assembly together as a unit. If the slugs are undersized, the tube will have to be deformed more before contacting the slugs. Hopefully no one has tried to tighten down the axle without the slugs installed.

jaguar · « **Reply #103 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:10:35 PM »

Interesting, didn't think about the axle itself deforming when tightened.

jaguar · « **Reply #104 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:03:11 AM »

I still can not get over how exciting it is to see the Seeley actually look like a motorcycle. But I have run into a few issues that I need help addressing. Most can be chalked up to the joys of working on a motorcycle that only had 302 others made. This is a first for me. Normally I would scourer through OEM service manuals or parts phish. For this bike no such info is out there. The other thing I would do if I was extra stumped would be to go out and physically look at another of the same motorcycle. I have been lucky enough to have more then one bike in the garage and a few local friends with similar bikes, but alas I don’t know anyone around here with a Seeley CB750. Actually I have never seen one in person before owning this one!

We all know that I am having an issue with the steering stem bearings, this issue is on hold while I seek out some other bearing options and reach out to some locals with tools that might be able to help me modify what I have to work.
Was hoping this was not going to be a big deal, but it is what it is. Right now I have a OEM Honda CB750 front end to use, goal was to swap to a Gl1000 front end that uses the same bearings. I have to admit that after the struggle it has had me thinking of other front end options too.

So here are the other hurdles I have come across so far.

The lower shock mounts on the top of the swing arm are very thin. When I was looking at them they are not perfectly square. I checked and I don’t see any cracks, damage, repairs or anything wrong. Just slightly tweaked. Is this a cause for huge concern?

There is some speculation that this bike last used a CB550 rear hub. Unsure if the that has anything to do with my issue. The OEM CB750 axle is a fair bit thicker then the Seeley axle. I was stupid and didn’t measure the two axles while I was in the shop, only the Seeley axle. It is 15mm. The CB750 drum would not fit between the swing arm with the spacers that I have. I think that the sprocket carrier is to “wide” as it seems to be pushing the whole wheel to the right in the frame.

Does a CB550 use a thinner axle? I assume that I will need to swap wheel bearings in the 750 wheels to suit the smaller axle.

You can see the wheel pushed to one side.

The issue isn’t just getting these wheels to work, but to make sure that I can run the Lesters.

Here is a better look at the parts I have to work with.
Took a look at the rear axle spacers. I think that I have all of the Seeley bits I need, but I will know for sure when I mock it all up. All of the parts, save the one OEM, are alloy and don’t weigh much at all. Even the axle nuts are alloy.

None seem to have any damage or ware that is cause for concern, very happy about that.
Interesting to see a small variation between the right and left axle end plates.

Function is identical, just coming from a world of mass produced parts it is cool to see something that was cut by hand for a small batch.

Unsure what will need to be done.
I will need to take more detailed measurements next time I am in the shop.
Have a friend that is sending me a complete Cb550 hub (thanks Bassmaster) Fingers crossed that solves the spacing problem.

Will need to look more into CB550 vs Cb750 wheels. I thought that they where the same actually, but that seems wrong now.
Maybe I just need CB500/550 wheel bearings placed in my lesters?

I thought that I had all of the special Seeley parts, but I was short the front right motor mount plate. Lucky it should be a simple part to make. Looks like I have even found a pattern for it.

The bike will need a side stand. Checked and the lower tubing looks to be 1 1/8 inch. Will have to see what type of bolt on options are out there.

Another thing on the list to figure out is foot pegs and rearsets, but that is for another day.

01Thomas · « **Reply #105 on:** February 16, 2015, 12:47:37 PM »

Hello Jaguar

Don't worry about the lower shock mountings, thin as they may be. They work just fine. As to how 'square' they are not, I think they can be tweaked once you have the shock hanging from the upper mounting and the swinging arm is finally installed.

I'll dig out my rear axle & old Melba rear wheel tomorrow and take some photos. When I start putting mine back together I'll also be swapping wheels (going back to a stock Honda spoked, disc-braked CB750F wheel) so I'm probably also going to have to do some fitting & matching befopre I get the axle, bearings and alignment right.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #106 on:** February 16, 2015, 01:21:14 PM »

Jaguar, double check that the cb750 rear wheel you are mocking up with does not have the wider k7/8 sprocket carrier. The k7/k8 also uses a wider swingarm.

Info about this here...down at the bottom of the page
http://cyclexchange.net/Chain%20Sprocket%20Page.htm

jaguar · « **Reply #107 on:** February 16, 2015, 01:46:36 PM »

Anything is possible I guess.
Frame is a 74.

jaguar · « **Reply #108 on:** February 22, 2015, 08:39:18 AM »

Well last weekend was Valentines day so I didn’t get much time in the shop, and this weekend time was spend helping the person who’s shop I am using doing some work at the house so mostly spent time researching and trying to figure out how to solve the myriad of problems I seem to be coming across.

First on the list was dealing with the rear hub. A stock Honda CB750 uses a 20mm rear axle, but it seems that my Seeley runs a 15mm one. That seems on the smaller size. There is also a question of if the Seeley used the whole CB750 rear hub or a combination of other bikes too. Lucky for me I know where the rear hub that was supposedly on my frame went too. The bike had a pair of 18 inch alloy rims on it, I had always had the plan to run lesters so I didn’t go after the wheels. This turned out to be a mistake as they had some parts on them that I could use. Working on getting the hub right now though. (Thanks a million ATMCycles).

First sign that I saw that something was different was the spacer on the drum side. In the picture you can see that there is a step. The OD of that step is 20mm and the ID is 15mm. It slips inside the drum plate unlike how the OEM pieces would mount.

I got some pictures of the hub that used to be on the frame. You can see that there is a spacer inside the bearings.

Unsure exactly what hub it is though. Anyone tell from the pictures?

I think that the solution will be fairly simple in regards to the axle diameter difference. I will either used the spacer seen in the pictures with my Lester wheels, or make another one that will work. Wonder why Seeley used a smaller axle and then a bushing? I hope that in order to solve the spacing issue all I need to do is use the correct sprocket carrier. From what I can see the OEM CB750 one is to “wide” and pushes the whole wheel assembly to far to the right. We will see as soon as I have more parts in front of me.

Another snippet of info is that the front end w used to be a modified CB750 unit.
Interesting period modifications like a set screw near the seals.

And air fittings to charge the forks.

Was converted to dual disc, but was told these are NOT cb750 brackets. Maybe CB550 or CB400?

Took a much-needed brake from anything to do with the steering head bearings for a time. Reaching out to some local talent to help me fabricate the needed axle adjustors and such. Made an excel list of some OEM part I know that I will need like intake boots, carb rebuild parts, brake rebuild parts ect. Will place an order soon so I have that stuff on hand.

Mcwilliams570 · « **Reply #109 on:** February 22, 2015, 12:25:43 PM »

Those look like 550 front disk brackets. Picture of my 550 brackets.

Matt

jaguar · « **Reply #110 on:** February 22, 2015, 12:42:19 PM »

Do you have a measurement center to center between the holes that mount the calipers?

scottly · « **Reply #111 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:01:57 PM »

That sleeve in the old hub is a Seeley part, and should have been included with the frame.
The 550 calipers have a 1.650" CTC bolt spacing, and use a 275mm diameter rotor, while 750 calipers have a 1.970" CTC, and use a 295mm rotor.

jaguar · « **Reply #112 on:** February 22, 2015, 04:33:51 PM »

Quote from: scottly on February 22, 2015, 04:01:57 PM

That sleeve in the old hub is a Seeley part, and should have been included with the frame.
The 550 calipers have a 1.650" CTC bolt spacing, and use a 275mm diameter rotor, while 750 calipers have a 1.970" CTC, and use a 295mm rotor.

Thanks.
The info on the caliper mounts will help ATMCycles a lot. He now owns the wheels/forks.

Greggo · « **Reply #113 on:** February 22, 2015, 05:07:04 PM »

Rear hub? Looks like 500/4, early 550/4 to me. Reverse threaded bearing retainer IIRC.

atm cycles · « **Reply #114 on:** February 22, 2015, 06:20:00 PM »

Helps but upsetting. Nice drilled rotors that I'll have to sell or use 550 calipers.

atm cycles · « **Reply #115 on:** February 23, 2015, 03:02:38 AM »

Not to hijack the Jag but is the 500-550 front hub different than 750? Jags Seeley may have run 500-550 at both ends

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #116 on:** February 23, 2015, 03:06:30 AM »

500/550 and 750 front hubs are identical

atm cycles · « **Reply #117 on:** February 23, 2015, 04:24:12 AM »

Fantastic. Thanks

jaguar · « **Reply #118 on:** February 23, 2015, 05:34:32 AM »

I thought that the front hubs where the same.
Wonder why this bike seemed to have so much 550 on it in regards to the wheels/forks.
But I guess these bikes got built, taken apart, build and changed a million times so who knows.

atm cycles · « **Reply #119 on:** February 23, 2015, 06:56:27 AM »

Jag I'm thinking the 550 stuff on your bike was used for weight savings. The rear sprocket was also aluminum.

jaguar · « **Reply #120 on:** February 23, 2015, 08:00:33 AM »

That could make sense I guess.

Greggo · « **Reply #121 on:** February 24, 2015, 09:10:29 AM »

Looks like someone beat up that rear bearing retainer maybe not knowing it was reverse threaded..

brandEn · « **Reply #122 on:** February 24, 2015, 03:59:07 PM »

subscribed

jaguar · « **Reply #123 on:** February 28, 2015, 07:05:07 AM »

Had a free night so started working on rebuilding the OEM carbs for the bike. While I remain unsure exactly what carbs I will run on this bike I figure it is easiest to get up and running with the stock carbs before thinking about running smoothbores or sidedrafts. Idea is that I always talk to people embarking on a project to keep it as stock as possible to develop a base line. This also falls into the category of “can get done at home during the week” so no reason not to.

The person I bought the parts bike from included a clean set of carbs. So far everything looks great and they will work well. I assume they were drained and stored correctly for many years. The rubber bits are dry, but nothing seems rotten or damaged. Huge plus.

You can see in the pictures that they are fairly clean both inside and out.

When working on the kitchen table it is best to use a pizza box to keep the stale junk off the wood.

Like I said, I assume that these were removed from a running bike, drained and then placed on a shelf. Cant ask for much more then that. Good carburetors are becoming harder to find. Im sure right now Geeto is ready to get in his car and drive over here to punch me…..

Plan is to strip them down, clean them, inspect and then rebuild. I only ever use OEM Honda parts in my fuel systems. Sure the K&L kits are cheaper, but I have found that they fit poorly, include the wrong parts and do no hold up to modern ethanol fuel well.
Will be using some pinsol and water to clean them up. Normally I do my own soda blasting on carbs, but these do not really need it. And since I am not cleaning up the rest of the bike I don’t think I need a full show job on the outside of the carbs.

With the bowls off and the floats out I removed the needle/seats. I keep them together as they are a “matched” set. Have mixed them up, or seen others not keep track of it and chase leaks down the line.
They look serviceable. Replacements are expensive.

I have to check my other parts and research a bit, but my first instinct is that the upper two holes (ones to the right in the picture) have been enlarged. I remember reading about people doing this. Think HondaMan had some posts about it.

Main is 105

Jet 40

Will have to look up what stock is, I know these are in the correct range though. Will need to buy a few sets of brass anyway to tune.

This one always gets me. Before I start looking though old Micro Phish from Honda, can someone tell me if this is stock?

I want to say that every freaking rack I have has at least one “odd” bolt out. This time one is a screw and the other three are bolts, other times visa versa. Just something funny I noticed.

My mind wondered and I went into full tare down mode.

I have done so many racks by taking them fully apart it is just a force of habit. DO NOT loose those little spacers if you do happen to take the arms off. Right after I took them off, I put them back on. Zero need to go that deep on these.

Once the backing plate is off (8 screws) the choke arms can be removed.

The main fuel inlet cross over is something I think some people forget about.

I don’t think the aftermarket kits come with the O-rings for this.

675B castings. Will need to double check exactly what these were off of.

Don’t leave the spring inside.

The large ring on the top of the bodies holds keeps the piston slides in place.
Can see some “junk” on the chrome, its not deep scoring.

Will need to dig a little deeper to make sure the needles are set to the proper depth

And to keep with the food theme a Chinese food container is used to keep al the hardware safe.

Will stop on my way home for some PinSol and get these parts soaking and cleaned up. After they are fully rebuilt I will put them aside until I am ready to start the bike for the first time.

This project, and many others is more of a sum of small projects.
I have been trying to focus on each task and cross things off the list as I can get to them. If my garage was attached to where I live and I could wrench more regularly then maybe it would be better to have a flow, but since I don’t I work on what I can, when I can.

jaguar · « **Reply #124 on:** March 09, 2015, 02:51:06 PM »

Took some time while I should have been working and messed around with CAD. While nothing ground breaking for many, it was a set in being able to show the parts that I either need to make, or have someone make for me. In school I had used CREO a bit so picking up SolidWorks was not that bad. Looking forward to using it more both at work, and with my motorcycle hobby. Figure the only way to get better is to use it more. One of the draftsmen at the office was able to help show me better ways to draw the part so that changes can be made down the line. Neat stuff. Slowly chipping away at the in-house machinist to see his sense of humor for “extra circular activities” in the shop. He is a young guy and a hot rodder so I am hopeful he will be amenable to showing me a few things.

First is the end cap for the swingarm. The smaller OD step will fit inside of the swingarm tubing. I have seen some of the original ones flex, so I made this one fairly beefy. Each of the steps is 6mm “deep”. This seems like a rather simple piece to make.

The other part is the internal axle adjustor. After reading more about swingarm design I have learned that the idea should be to have this fit as tight as reasonable to the inside of the swingarm so that when everything is tightened up it locks together. The hole on the end will be tapped to use the OEM Honda bolts. Will need to figure out what the thread is on them. I assume 1.25
I need to make a few more measurements before I am done. Will have to work out the best location for the axle hole so that it allows for the full range or adjustment.

Again, no delusions that these are the most complicated things to draw, or make….but its part of the process.

Just leaves the front motor mount to make. Plan to use the high tech “pizza box” method. Will need to break out my most precise sharpie marker and sharpest blade on the jigsaw.

News:

Author Topic: Seeley 519 (Read 46138 times)