Topic: Starter clutch or starter motor?

[mcswny]

So this winter I rebuilt my starter clutch on my 72 cb750. I replaced all the caps, pins and springs but not the actual gear. It was in spec. After that I do still get the occasional bag of marbles sound that I've always associated with th starter clutch.

Could this be a symptom of the actual starter motor or did I possibly do something wrong with the starter clutch this winter. It still starts and starts well, it only seems to slip on a particularly cold start.

I know it's hard to tell for everyone but I wanted to at least get the conversation going so I then can ask the questions/get the right questions asked.

Thanks!
Tim

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

On the 'gear' is the round surface that the rollers contact in reasonable 'round' shape or can you feel or see any irregularities? I have 3 or 4 and that surface is a little different on all. The worst one was a culprit until I replaced it and the clutch parts.

'bag of marbles sound'? What is that? Usually the clutch just spins free on the crank with a 'whirring' sound.

[Brookesy in Oz]

I have had an issue with the starter not engaging and decided to replace the rollers/springs in the starter clutch. When I removed the alternator the rotor was loose / spinning on the shaft. The internal taper was stuffed so a spare rotor is now on there. So far all good.

[mcswny]

Sorry, jerry, my bag of marbles reference is the same as your whirring sound.

It's weird, I feel like it's ALMOST fixed 8 out of ten times it's fine whereas before it almost never caught an was just spinning. I'm kinda wondering I just didn't torque the rotor down hard enough. I was doing this by my self and had a hard time getting it to spec. If this is it, I guess this is what I get for being impatient and not waiting for an extra hand. Just ordered two new side gaskets so I'll open it up look at the gear and retorque and report back.

[Bodi]

I've had plenty of problems with those dang sprag clutches. I found that three problems dominate: worn bearings, damaged inner surface, and loose roller housings. The unit takes a massive shock every time it engages, the housing bolts need to be torqued tight: I clean the bolt threads and heads, threaded holes, and housing holes with acetone then put a dab of antseize on the housing countersinks and a dab of red loctite on the bolt threads - then use a hammer and hand impact screwdriver to really tighten the bolts. The antiseize lets the flathead taper slip freely while tightening, the loctite stops it shaking loose.
The inner drive hub bearings should not allow much radial movement at all, its outer surface should be competely smooth. If the hub can move around or the surface is bad, the rollers can slip and chatter: that's what really ruins the clutch. The caps and springs can escape completely even though it seems there's no gap they can possibly fit out through, or even past the rollers. The housing can crack. The bolts can work loose or break off.
If the clutch is slipping and chattering it may be too late to save but if you can fix it just by tightening the bolts or replacing the roller bearing that's cheaper than getting a complete replacement.

[mcswny]

I've had plenty of problems with those dang sprag clutches. I found that three problems dominate: worn bearings, damaged inner surface, and loose roller housings. The unit takes a massive shock every time it engages, the housing bolts need to be torqued tight: I clean the bolt threads and heads, threaded holes, and housing holes with acetone then put a dab of antseize on the housing countersinks and a dab of red loctite on the bolt threads - then use a hammer and hand impact screwdriver to really tighten the bolts. The antiseize lets the flathead taper slip freely while tightening, the loctite stops it shaking loose.
The inner drive hub bearings should not allow much radial movement at all, its outer surface should be competely smooth. If the hub can move around or the surface is bad, the rollers can slip and chatter: that's what really ruins the clutch. The caps and springs can escape completely even though it seems there's no gap they can possibly fit out through, or even past the rollers. The housing can crack. The bolts can work loose or break off.
If the clutch is slipping and chattering it may be too late to save but if you can fix it just by tightening the bolts or replacing the roller bearing that's cheaper than getting a complete replacement.

Thanks Bodi, I'll keep this in mind when I get back in there.