Topic: Organic or sintered pads with drilled 550 rotor?

[Speedy]

Pretty basic question but not finding much info on EBC V semi-sintered pads.  I have a thinned and drilled 550 rotor on my 400F so not sure if its wise to use sintered pads. They are only a few $ more than organic pads.

[Scott S]

 In my experience, the sintered EBC pads squeal like crazy.

[Don R]

 I read the HH sintered pads are similar to oem on our bikes.

[Speedy]

I'm really interested in which pads stop the best with 40 year old brake technology? 

[HondaMan]

AVOID the "organic" pads, period. They don't stop, period. In the wet, I think they actually accelerate the bike when applied...
 

[Speedy]

Are there only 2 choices, organic and semi-sintered?  I thought I saw some generic (not EBC) sintered pads somewhere.

[grcamna2]

subscribed

[HondaMan]

After I pitched out the organic EBC pads (this was all in 2008-9 era) I installed their "other" pads they used to have, which did not have any significant sintering bits in them. They stopped a little better (not great), but squealed like a screech owl below 15 MPH during stops. I found it helpful in traffic (like loud pipes?), but annoying...next I tried their 'sintered' pads in 2009, which looked like their dark-colored, non-sintered ones, except they had bits of copper or brass in them. These stopped better than the earlier ones, but about every 2000 miles they would start squeaking at low speeds or when the bike was being rolled around (especially backward) manually. I'd sand them and add some anti-squeak on the back of them and they would quiet down for another 2000 miles or so. This wore them out pretty fast, as you might imagine, and they lasted about 10,000 miles before they were close to the wear marker.

Then I finally found some genuine Honda pads (looked like 1980s vintage from the packaging), and threw the EBC pads in the trash. The OEM pads cost 5x what the EBC pads did, and are worth every cent, being sintered, asbestos, and quite water-resistant. And they are SILENT!

Then Mark at M3 Racing found me some asbestos sintered racing pads, and the OEM pads are on my 750F now instead. These cost even more than the Honda pads, but they stop much harder (I can make the front tire squeal) and they seem completely unfazed in the wet. They have no brand name on them, but if he has some more, get them! They are terrific.

[Lostboy Steve]

Asbestos, Lead, and Deet for the win. I have the Vesrah organic pads with a drilled rotor and they stop quite well and dont make any noise. Even through the mountains and twistys of PA they were good. They do put off some dust though. If I dont clean my front wheel often you can see the "soot".

[Powderman]

Organic pads are entry level bottom dollar pads that stop your vehicle. They may not do it very quickly or accurately everytime. The only time I didn't try and talk a customer out of buying organic pads was when they told me they were just putting them in a vehicle to sell.

[Speedy]

Thanks for the info but I'm still confused.  Are the choices only organic or sintered?  Or does the brand matter?  If so what are the best pads, cost doesn't matter to me.     

Parts n More offers what appears to be the OEM pads for $ 23.00.  For that price not sure they are:

#29-3501 | Honda CB400F (1977)  Front Brake Pads Pk/2 OEM Ref#45105-390-006A

http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/cb400f/?filters[category]=chassis&filters[per_page]=100

[HondaMan]

You're right about the price: OEM pads are closer to $60, at least when I have found them?
I have found it to be 'luck of the draw' when buying some of them online. I've ended up with a collection of bad ones, which I keep around to show to other 750/500/550 riders what not to buy.

The ones that make the most noise are almost black in color, and show no sintered bits in them. The 'organic' ones I have are a tan color and feel slick to the fingers when dragged across them (and to the disc!). The sintering is OEM, and is very important to the operation, as it upsets the surface of the disc slightly, so it will not polish itself smooth (and useless). Asbestos used to do this for us automatically: after the EPA got ahold of that, we had nothing for many years until the sintered pads came along from racers in the early 1990s. At first they were both sintered AND asbestos (best pads ever!), but those ran out in the market by about 2003 or so (haven't seen them since then, anyway...). Along the way, other [American] companies got involved and made pads for a while in 'modern' material with added sintering: these are a dark brown color with obvious (and large) brass-colored sintered bits.

In any case, get sintered pucks, IMHO. At least you will be able to stop! The 400F does not squeak as badly as the larger disc brakes, partly due to the caliper construction, but if they do you can always treat the back of the pucks with anti-squeak and get some peace for a few thousand miles at a stretch. I did that for a long time with the old EBC black sintered ones.

[brewsky]

Here's how to  MAXIMIZE  the screech:

1. get a new stainless caliper and install as directed by supplier (open end toward pad)

2. throw away the cushion ring (as it won't fit on the open end)

3. get new SBS ceramic sintered pads (501 HF)

4. apply CRC Disc Brake Quiet per instructions

5. take a ride and apply front brake

[HondaMan]

Here's how to  MAXIMIZE  the screech:

1. get a new stainless caliper and install as directed by supplier (open end toward pad)

2. throw away the cushion ring (as it won't fit on the open end)

3. get new SBS ceramic sintered pads (501 HF)

4. apply CRC Disc Brake Quiet per instructions

5. take a ride and apply front brake

Cool!
Who was it here that enshrined it: "Loud brakes save lives"?

[brewsky]

Someone also said it was a "feature", not a "problem"!

[buffalogt750]

I've used the FA13V semi sintered on my CB550 with drilled but not thinned rotor. They stop maybe slightly  better than OEM Honda pads but the EBC's should come with free ear plugs. The FA13V's are not a full sintered pad and are not HH compound. I could never find HH compound pads for the CB550. The FA13V's have 30% copper content and are GG compound (it says GG right on the back of the pad) and EBC says they offer the "feel of an organic pad with the long life of a sintered pad". I've tried many brake pads including the FA13V's, Ferodo old school asbestos, several different cheap ebay pads and OEM Honda. I liked the OEM Honda the best because they were the only ones I had a fighting chance to control the squeal. No matter what pads I used I always found the original Honda disc brake, with it's strange swinging caliper, to be barely adequate at best.

[HondaMan]

I've used the FA13V semi sintered on my CB550 with drilled but not thinned rotor. They stop maybe slightly  better than OEM Honda pads but the EBC's should come with free ear plugs. The FA13V's are not a full sintered pad and are not HH compound. I could never find HH compound pads for the CB550. The FA13V's have 30% copper content and are GG compound (it says GG right on the back of the pad) and EBC says they offer the "feel of an organic pad with the long life of a sintered pad". I've tried many brake pads including the FA13V's, Ferodo old school asbestos, several different cheap ebay pads and OEM Honda. I liked the OEM Honda the best because they were the only ones I had a fighting chance to control the squeal. No matter what pads I used I always found the original Honda disc brake, with it's strange swinging caliper, to be barely adequate at best.

Well, the swinging caliper and the soft rubber hoses to power the hydraulics were Honda's safety engineers' input. That, and the stainless disc (for cosmetic reasons) contribute to the lesser performance as compared to the auto-rusting Kawaski "Z" bike versions.

Today, when I make an SOHC4 that needs heavy braking performance, I do these things:
1. Rebuild the swingarm with bronze bushings. Reason: when the front stops hard, the back had BETTER stay straight, or it will become a handful to control.
2. Install tapered steering head bearings. See #1 for the reasoning.
3. Install hard brake lines, like the Goodrich, in the shortest practical length.
4. If racing, add a second disk - there's several ways to do this...

The difference in these 2 versions of the bike is dramatic. At one point I toured with my racing dual-disc setup on my 750 (1972-1979) and it was a 1-finger stop from any speed, any time. After the pads wore down and I installed just one disc again, it became the SOHC4 brake all over!

[AMD500]

if someone were to say, make a kit that allows bolting on a Brembo gold caliper or blue spot caliper to a stock wheel to use with a Ducati disc... would there be a market for that? Pandemonium cycles did it for the XS650, and it was a hit. Been planning on doing this for quite some time on my bike, but still havent gotten around to it.

http://www.pandemoniumc2.com/#!parts-store/cmai/!/Pandemonium-Brake-Kit-TM-35mm-&-34MM-for-XS650/p/46227518/category=11951480