Author Topic: Re: Rickman restoration  (Read 18974 times)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2015, 10:00:48 PM »
This car was welded, not brazed. In any case, my Seeley will never see an acid tank or oven while I own it. ;) ;)

I think it probably had more to do with the heat from welding than the powder oven... ;)

Quote
when welding there are minuses to consider. The joints are made at high temperatures, high enough to melt both base metals and filler metal. High temperatures can cause problems, such as possible distortion and warping of the base metals
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 10:04:57 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2015, 10:14:45 PM »
With either welding or brazing the heat is concentrated at the joints, while an oven heats the entire assembly. One inch of tubing has less elongation than 2 feet of the same tubing, heated to the same temp.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2015, 10:21:18 PM »
I'm not trying to argue Scott but powdercoating will not hurt that frame, the temps are far lower, welding uses much higher temps than brazing and way more than a powder oven, its very common to powder coat race car frames, and bike frames, even alloy. With welding you are melting both joined surfaces at very high temps, this can and does cause distortion this isn't the case with brazing..
The metal would haver to be very thin walled to warp {if at all} in the time it takes to cure powdercoat, much thinner than a race car chassis....
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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2015, 10:28:13 PM »
Ok, so here is my question again since as I don't think they did the nickel on the frame before they put it together,what do any of you suggest I do?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2015, 10:47:24 PM »
Ok, so here is my question again since as I don't think they did the nickel on the frame before they put it together,what do any of you suggest I do?

The nickel coating is done after the frame is assembled, I suggest getting out the phone book and chasing down your options, not much we can do... If you can't get nickel done, maybe polish the frame and get it sealed with a good clear powder coat, it will look similar, the only other option is to send your frame away to be nickel coated. Nickel coating isn't a highly involved process, are you certain no one in Jamaica can do it.  After a quick search i found these guys, if they don't do it they may be able to send you to someone who can...

http://www.coatingsplatingsjamaica.us/
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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2015, 04:13:15 AM »
I know people that does power coating, but I want to keep the frame authentic with the nickel, not sure how power would holdup under close inspection since as I am a member of a classic club.

Offline calj737

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2015, 04:30:46 AM »
And not all nickel coating is the same. Nickel can be a strong and durable finish. But many coaters who do nickel don't do it to an industrial strength and it's not corrosion-resistant enough to endure.

There's a shop not too far from me that I investigated having a frame done. While they do offer the service (it's the same place John Ryland of Classified Moto uses for his tanks) they strongly discouraged doing it as what they offer won't hold up (nor will his tanks apparently  :o ). I was told I would have to find a player who specialized in nickel as final coat (nickel being used in the chroming process was not the correct method).

If it were me, given how damaged that bike is, I would opt for repairing as much of the tubing as possible, then polishing it and shooting it with clear powder coat. That would give you the best appearance, the greatest durability, and longest lasting finish. Hogwash that powder coating will warp or damage your frame! Absolute rubbish that opinion....

I've had sheet metal powder coated, aluminum sheets coated, frames coated, and not a single MM of distortion. The only warpage I've ever encountered was welding stainless bungs into thin sheet metal (vintage tanks) for new filler necks. And even that was minimal.

I get you want restoration correct, but as your tank is already destroyed, your objective might be to "recover and recreate" as closely as possible a new example of the vintage bike.
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2015, 05:37:45 AM »
Look into "Brightside" yacht paint.
I have used it before.  Great stuff that holds up well.

Offline Powderman

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2015, 09:31:19 AM »
I've been asked to way in here on the powder coating issue. Everything Retrosaid is spot on. There is absolutely no concern with the 400* heat for 10 minutes causing any detrimental effect to the metal or welds/brazes. You can sand blast the nickle off too virgin metal and powder coat it and be done. The only things I have ever seen warp in the oven is old pot metal parts.

Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2015, 12:43:52 PM »
I have the same problem with my nickel-plated  Seeley, although it's nowhere as bad as on your bike. My solution was to clean the crud off it lightly with a rotating wire brush (chucked in a drill) and then to coat it liberally with a commercial phosphoric acid rust-buster - twice.

Then I polished it up nicely and gave it two coats of clear lacquer. Of great importance are the parts you can't see and get to when the bike is assembled: under and behind the steering head and the gearbox & swingarm area.


I would get that frame replated, the salty Island air has really had its way with it ... ;)

Hard to do here, would have to send it to the US, and thats a whole other story.
1971 Honda CB750 Four K1 [Engine: CB750E-1113521 / Frame: CB750-1113838]
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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2015, 04:28:09 PM »
Day 3 I am left with this,and everyone here has more experience that I will ever have so, I will go with the power coating, now can anyone say what is the nearest coating I can use to make this look nickel?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2015, 04:36:16 PM »
Polish up the frame first and go with a good clear powder coat, it will almost look like chrome, which Nickel does....... Someone here just did this to their front forks, I'll see if i can find them and i'll post the pics here... ;)
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2015, 04:48:27 PM »
I polished my forks and followed with a clear power coat. 

Original Oxidized Lowers



Polished Lowers


Clear Powder Coated Lowers


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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2015, 04:49:34 PM »
Polish up the frame first and go with a good clear powder coat, it will almost look like chrome, which Nickel does....... Someone here just did this to their front forks, I'll see if i can find them and i'll post the pics here... ;)

Thanks Retro Rocket.

Offline Tews19

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2015, 04:50:44 PM »
God that's gorgeous Don! How is it holding up?
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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2015, 04:52:01 PM »
I polished my forks and followed with a clear power coat. 

Original Oxidized Lowers



Polished Lowers


Clear Powder Coated Lowers



YUM, I am liking that, if thats how it will look when done I am doing it, if I can get the rust spots to shine first.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2015, 04:52:44 PM »
Thanks Don, thats the pics I was thinking about. Here is a picture of a bicycle frame with clear powder on it, the powder will preserve what ever finish you have on the raw steel, raw steel will polish up like chrome if you put the work in as you can see in Dons pics.., you may be able to find someone who polishes metals to help...Raw steel with clear powder, this frame isn't polished, just sanded...... ;)

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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2015, 04:58:54 PM »
An alternative is to powdercoat the frame with ceramic powder coating that is the color of polished metal.  I have seen in on exhaust pipes and fork lowers.  The only downside to it is that if the metal is not finely polished beforehand, the powder coating will not be a brilliant mirror finish, but have some undulations in the finish.

Here is a Kawasaki H2 with ceramic coated expansion chambers.  You can see that the metal is not as mirror-brilliant as my clear-coated fork lowers above.

1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline PeWe

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2015, 05:07:59 AM »
Light grey/silver 2k or powder coat on frame would look ok. Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.
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Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2015, 04:26:56 PM »
Light grey/silver 2k or powder coat on frame would look ok. Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.

Good to know PeWe, thanks

Offline calj737

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2015, 04:45:57 PM »
Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.
Same is true when painted, nickel coated, chromed etc.  ???
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2015, 04:49:23 PM »
Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.
Same is true when painted, nickel coated, chromed etc.  ???

Exactly..... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2015, 09:02:05 AM »



So Guys, after a week of scraping, wire brushing, sanding and polishing, this is what I have, I just can get sand paper to go deep enough into the frame to bring up a shine, and I am using from 100 to 180.
 :(

Offline hagar24

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2015, 09:04:53 AM »
And this.

Offline calj737

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Re: Rickman restoration
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2015, 08:36:38 PM »
To get it to shine, you'll need to progress up to finer grit paper. The more coarse the grit, the more you "scratch" the surface. Subsequent grits used in progression, actually remove prior grit scratches. So, start with 180, then go to 320, 600, 1200, and finally 2500. As you double, you'll leave finer and finer scratches behind for the next grit to remove.
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