Topic: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread

[nixon]

hey
i installed tapered bearings on my cb750A. the first 50 miles were great. Amazing.

Then something happened and steering went super heavy- too tight.

Since then ive adjusted it 10 times, just loosening the top triple clamp- and adjusting the steering cup notched bolt.

Im talking 3-5 mills too toght- or too loose..so get wobbles at speed..or too heavy at low speed.

Could it be as i haven't ground down ridges in the cup like in pic? so ridges only in contact with bearing? do i need the cup? can i just separate the nut with ridges so it sits flush?


-- update - ----------

I separated the cup from the nut and it made a big improvement. It really needs to sit flush not on the ridges...1000 miles going great

 

[turkey4me]

I started installing tapered bearings today on a 750F after reading this thread.  Everything is going smooth. 
I froze the new bottom race and hammered it in gently with rubber mallet.  Once flush I used 1.5" PVC to drive it in further.

My question is how far is far enough.  The bottom race did not fully seat.  I can put a fingernail in between the race and the seat face of the steering head.  I can't get it completely flush which has me worried.
Any thoughts?

[nixon]

Maybe try something steel to drive it. .perhaps the pvc not up to job.  Should sit flush I believe
Did u lightly grease also?

[jaguar]

I know it is a zombie thread, but figured it kept things together.

Does anyone have the current part numbers for just the cone bearings?
I am trying to mount a stock CB750 front end to me Seeley.

Currently have Timken bearing races in the frame.  The Seeley uses a different OD bearing race for some reason.
So I only need the cone bearings to fit onto the stock Honda stem.

Have dug up
07100 and L45499 but hear those might not actually still work?
Unsure how a part number could work at one time and then change.  But stranger things have happened.
I guess I could just send AllBalls the dimensions for the races and order a set from them, but I am cheap.
Assume that the 2 cone bearings will cost $20

Thanks for any help

[bryanj]

The bearings were never standard numbers and different manufacturers can use a different angle on the tapers so cones and cups should never be mixed

[nixon]

Yeah complete kit cheap enough

[jaguar]

The bearings were never standard numbers and different manufacturers can use a different angle on the tapers so cones and cups should never be mixed

I was reading that the taper is an ISO standard.  So if the cup size is close its okay?  The seeley cups are about 1mm larger OD

Yeah complete kit cheap enough

Issue is that it is not going on a stock bike, so no kit.

[bryanj]

The inner and outer diameters are a standard but not the actual taper anglemate

[SierraCB]

I have everything off of the stem and out of the head tube... I totally f'd on the bottom area where the race seats.  So pissed.  Am I screwed?  I got the top race in just fine after freezing but the bottom seems like itll be hell. I'm using the ALL BALLS kit.

[flybox1]

I have everything off of the stem and out of the head tube... I totally f'd on the bottom area where the race seats.  So pissed.  Am I screwed?  I got the top race in just fine after freezing but the bottom seems like itll be hell. I'm using the ALL BALLS kit.

picture?

[Tews19]

550 or 750?

[SierraCB]

750

[koendd]

old thread but need some advice...

Working on a 550, just installed the races/bearing on the neck.
When I thighten everything down, the steering stop on te frame hits the raised section of the lower triple...

The bearing kit just came with the 2 bearing, cups and 2 seals.
So no spacers used (used same kit on two 750's and didn't install a spacer either, never had problems with that...

So I'm guessing the lower triple goes in to deep right?
I'll try to get the new bearing off the triple and install a spacer, but since I have no measurements of spacers, how thick are the ones that do come with other kits (like all balls)?

Thanks!

[scottly]

The Parts Plus kit came with a .150" lower spacer. I've read that some kits come with a thinner lower spacer, like .100", with an even thinner upper spacer, like .050"?
The tapered bearings are shorter overall than the ball bearings, which is why spacers are needed.

[koendd]

allright, thx!

will see what I can fab up tomorrow. that seems about the height I'm lacking at the bottom...

Weird I never had problems with my 750's without spacer though....

[scottly]

My kit came without seals, and won't work with the stock lower seal, due to the OD of the lower spacer. The bottom of the stock race has a raised area where the seal fits over, so the race can bottom out on the triple without pinching the seal. I'm planning to turn down the OD of the spacer so it will fit into the stock seal.

[koendd]

dammit! destroyed the seal while hammering the bearing back off...

[scottly]

It seems that only the lower bearing assembly is shorter than the stock assembly, due to the clearance for the stock seal. The upper bearings are roughly the same height.

[koendd]

excellent info!

contacted the seller of the bearing kit, will get a new seal and lower bearing...

[scottly]

What does your seal look like? What about the upper seal? As far as I know, Honda never used an upper seal, and the aftermarket kit's upper seals create a problem?

[koendd]

this is the set I have..


didn't use the upperseal just jet. seems a perfect fit though, I still have to grind down the ridge on the inside of the  top collar as well

[EvLoutonian]

Read through this thread before buying my "All Balls" kit.
Many replies, a lot of good advice but not a lot of consistency on the order of installing the bearings, seals, & washers.
Studied, measured, etc., and used the method I thought would work the best on my 1974 CB750.
In other words - "I did it ...   my  .. way", sorry Frank..

First removed the tree.
Tapped the old races out with a brass punch.
Ground the bottom race with a grinding wheel on the dremel and tapped it off with a brass punch.



Put the seal supplied in the kit on the lower bearing and tapped it in place with the aid of a PVC tube.



Instead of putting the larger diameter washer / spacer supplied in the kit below the bearing, I put it on top of the lower race.
The OD of that washer is slightly smaller than the ID inside the neck. I made sure it was centered as I seated the lower race.
 


The bearing & seal fit nicely in the neck.



The fork stops mesh in the same place they use to.



Now for the top bearing...

I installed the frozen race on top. No washers / spacers, or seal.



The kit says to mill the ridge inside the fork nut "X" amount..  I decided differently.

I took the dremel again and carefully ground each place on the ridge where it held the cup to the nut. Then removed the cup and ground the ridge completely flat. I wanted the top bearing to sit flush to the surfaced on the nut. The inner diameter of the cup is slightly larger than the area on the bearing it sits over. I verified this by assembling the tree back together and snugging the nut down. The cup would spin freely and had some vertical movement.



Then used a small amount of JB weld to attach the cup back to the nut.



Hand tight, the nut sits flush on top of the bearing..



I did all this to maintain the same distance between the upper and lower tree as it was originally and avoid using any spacers above or below the chrome headlight mounts.
It was a success!
I temporarily mounted the ears with the top tree secured and the fit was snug, just as it should be.
Will post more pics when I get the forks back on. 

Ken

Hi Ken,

Are these pictures (previously hosted on PhotoBucket?) still available to view somewhere?
(shows up as a blank from PhotoBucket on my screen here)

[Yamahawk]

If you use Firefox as your browser, there are additions that will allow you to view PhotoBucket pics.
Charlie

[Erny]

Just found this tread, so instead creating new one, I'll continue here

I just got new All Balls kit 22-1011.
Reading this tread and some others I understood following:
LOWER - I should place under lower bearing (order from bottom-up) : washer to compensate different height (based on measurement select 99-1011 or 99-1054), seal and then lower bearing
UPPER - for the upper part, I should assemble it as on attached leaflet : seal, washer 99-1101 and the original spanner nut. OR, alternatively, if there wil not be proper gap for ears, solution is to grind spanner nut.

Is that correct, please?

Additionally, I'm wondering why there are 2 kind of bearings - is there different dimension for upper and lower? The same for seals...

And lastly, something not discussed here (and did not find elsewhere) - what should be torque to tighten it?


Why I ask - I had quite some issues when I replaced stock bearings in my previous CBF1000F (SC64, 2010) by tappered one. Simply torque for tappered bearings had to be  higher than required by shop manual for standard (25Nm)

Here is kit content I received and leaflet

[jaytee-nz]

i just used the same kit on my CB500. Your order from the bottom up is correct.
I didn't use the top washer though, only the seal (there was no seal originally when Mr Honda made these so the seal could be optional as well).
The bottom bearing is a different size to the top so that's why they are different.
Can't tell you what the torque setting is sorry - I just tighten mine until there is no play and the steering is not overly tight when moved from side to side.
If you end up with too much space for the ears, you can grind the top nut although I simply added some o rings to the fork tubes to take up the extra space and they are hardly noticeable.
The main issue to watch for is that you end up with enough threaded area on the top of the stem to properly secure your top nut and washer.