Author Topic: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16  (Read 1862 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,842
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« on: April 06, 2016, 12:46:41 PM »
Moderators: I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, move as may be required?

Some of us are getting the "recall notice" from CB750Supply about the suspected inferior cam chain tensioners. To test whether it is really the rubber (or not) at fault, I have started a test with a Honda tensioner and a Taiwanese tensioner, side-by-side, half immersed in used engine oil, in a clear container. (Pictures at 10 PM tonight) If the roller swells or shrinks (or something) on the half in the oil, it will be obvious after a while. The Honda part is right next to it (and has a stuck roller, came that way, so I never used it...) so the position will be consistent?

Here's one thought I have had about these tensioners, to mull over: all of the Tawianese ones I have seen (and a good number of the Honda versions, like the one in this test) have a sharp burr where the square bearing-retainer notch is punched in the tensioner's arm. If this burr is not removed at assembly, the arm will not pivot, or if it is forced to pivot, will tilt the oiling holes of the collar bearing toward the front of the engine. If this happens, the bearing inside will not receive much oil, as the oil splash for this system comes from the slack side of the cam chain (i.e. back side of the engine), by splash, collecting in the 2 horizontally-placed oil pickup holes. If the oil is lean or lacking (or too thin, like hot 10w40 weight, hint...), the bearing can score at engine speeds above 6000 RPM or so. Once scored, it eventually drags or even seizes. This for sure would tear up the larger lower roller. Something to think about?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 05:51:51 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online CycleRanger

  • No comment about being an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,432
  • Central Texas Shop Manual Advocate
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 09:22:41 PM »
You will need to apply heat to provide a more accurate simulation.

And I'd consider this a "product review".  :)
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 09:58:17 PM »
You will need to apply heat to provide a more accurate simulation.

And I'd consider this a "product review".  :)

And friction, rotational forces and pressure at least  i'd imagine, it definitely doesn't stand still...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline strynboen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,883
    • http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=dp3uu3jmmll5tbbpooa0f52vg7&/topic,60973.0.html
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 03:21:38 AM »
yes boil it a bit..then the kookie gets done farster :)
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline 70CB750

  • Labor omnia vincit improbus.
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,802
  • Northern Virginia
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 04:49:03 AM »
Following.
Prokop
_______________
Pure Gas - find ethanol free gas station near you

I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline evanphi

  • Apparently I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,107
  • Rhonda the Basket Case
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 05:35:41 AM »
Interested in results.
--Evan

1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive

Offline mystic_1

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,071
  • 1970 CB750K
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 06:04:04 AM »
SCIENCE!

Well, more or less ;)

Following.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline evanphi

  • Apparently I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,107
  • Rhonda the Basket Case
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 06:09:43 AM »
--Evan

1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,320
  • Central Texas
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 07:08:20 AM »
Subscribed
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline budman

  • 1914X
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,446
    • LeCompte Electric Bass
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 09:12:46 AM »
I was looking at those CB750Supply tensioners this morning.  I ordered an OEM instead.  Glad I did.
Bud

1973 CB750K3 Chopper
2021 Indian Scout

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,842
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 06:21:14 PM »
The test I am doing here (at least at first) is a simple "oil exposure' test, since that's what the recall purports to be the problem.

the problem with the bearing seizure can happen to any of these that are installed without making sure they pivot freely, and that would tear up even Honda's own part, so I'm kinda disregarding that failure mode with this test. These rollers typically don't run very long: a typical engine with, say, 50,000 miles on it, at an average of 50 MPH overall, has just experienced 1000 hours of run time, or if it were reduced to "oil exposure time', this would be about 42 days of "exposure". When the engine stops, the oil largely drips off, so this test will be somewhat more intense than just dunking it and then letting it sit out, where the oil would run off of it.

If nothing shows up after a month or two, I might consider putting it on heat of some sort to see if that changes anything?

What bugs me about all this is: I've got a lot of engines out there since 2012 (or whenever these showed up), when Honda was out of stock and these were used instead. Many times, the customer brings me his engine and parts, in those situations where they felt they could not finish the rebuild, and they have been these parts, too. I don't know of any troubles, at least yet? The slipper tensioner in those kits also seems to be fine, not chunking off any rubber that is showing up in the oil filters or crankcases.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online CycleRanger

  • No comment about being an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,432
  • Central Texas Shop Manual Advocate
Re: Tensioner test - started 4/4/16
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 06:50:38 PM »
I'm betting it's oil+heat that's the biggest knob.
We need to to a DOE and ALT.  ;D
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T