Topic: Fox Podium RC1 Shock - Impressions

[FunJimmy]

Fox Racing recently released the Factory Series Podium RC1 performance shocks for custom Cafe and vintage Racers. This is billed as their best "Factory Series" shock and features a full complement of tuning adjustments plus three eye to eye lengths.

With over 40 years in the business Fox Racing has the knowledge and technical expertise to offer perfect solutions for any application. But do the they?

[FunJimmy]

I've been a big fan and rider of Fox Racing mountain bike suspension for over a decade.
Fox owns the mountain bike suspension business so I have huge admiration and confidence in their moto products.

One detail I really liked about these shocks was the spherical (self-align) top mount shown in the photos. That however isn't exactly the way they come for our bikes. Mine arrived with a stiff rigid plastic and metal bushing. These stiff bushings might be ok on a new bike but not all upper shock mount posts are straight and level after 35+ years of service. Mine weren't. The effect was a mis-aligned lower mount that required custom bushings of a slightly softer durometer.

[FunJimmy]

The shocks where ordered from Devin at Cognito Moto and he has been extremely helpful. Devin told me that they come spec'd with 1.8kg(100lb) 9inch spring but that was a bit stiff so he ordered mine with 1.5kg springs. Once ordered the shocks where drop shipped directly to me from Fox Racing in California.

Eager to get them installed I quickly opened the box to find two beautiful Factory Series Podium RC1 shocks. That's it. Nothing else. No owners manual, setup instructions, tuning suggestions. Nothing but two expensive shocks. Not even the 10mm X 1.0 fine thread lower mounting bolts that thread directly into the clevis. There are no options here so off I went to my local Honda dealer to source mounting bolts.

Talk about curbing your enthusiasm!

[FunJimmy]

Once installed I started the typical process of setting suspension sag. I know that the shocks didn't come with setup instructions but a typical rule of thumb is 25% suspension sag with rider. According to Devin, these shocks have 3.47" of stroke so a good starting point would be about 7/8" (22mm) sag. Even with the softer (than stock) springs the maximum amount of sag I get with 190# rider is 7mm. Only 1/3 of the ideal amount of sag. These shocks are WAY to stiff for our bikes. How can Fox get it so wrong with over 40 years of technical expertise in the performance suspension business?

I've looked and I've searched all over the Internet and not a single mention or recommendation of this to be found. Devin was the only one to suggest softer springs and that isn't even close to what the spring rate should be. Either people have no idea what a shock should feel like, are willing to put up with over sprung shocks because they look cool or Podium RC1 shocks aren't selling to the vintage Cafe/Racer crowd.

Does anyone have experience or a spring rate recommendation to suggest? I don't want to be shipping a whole lot of springs back and forth to get this right. I shouldn't have to!

[tweakin]

Nice Jim!

[turboguzzi]

FJ. not arguing with other things/issues you mentioned, but from my experience the 25% sag rule is more applicable to monoshocks with 120mm wheel travel but not to good old twin shocks with under 100mm actual stroke. with that kind of sag in twin shocks will be soon out of travel, just for all ii know...m 1.5kg is actually a quite acceptable rate in twin shocks.

[MRieck]

 You certainly should get a manual, warranty card etc. call Fox directly and explain it to them. Those are way to expensive for you to be dissatisfied Jim.

[FunJimmy]

You certainly should get a manual, warranty card etc. call Fox directly and explain it to them. Those are way to expensive for you to be dissatisfied Jim.

Thanks Mike,

I'm sure everything will get sorted.
Just want to get some suggestions to help simplify and speed up the process.

[FunJimmy]

FJ. not arguing with other things/issues you mentioned, but from my experience the 25% sag rule is more applicable to monoshocks with 120mm wheel travel but not to good old twin shocks with under 100mm actual stroke. with that kind of sag in twin shocks will be soon out of travel, just for all ii know...m 1.5kg is actually a quite acceptable rate in twin shocks.

Input from our highly respected members is always appreciated TG.

The Works Performance shocks that I replaced with these Fox Podium shocks felt very well balanced with the forks for spirited road riding. I thought these would be similarly balanced but have more tuning options via the adjustable dampning circuits. I wish I could calculate the Works spring rate for comparisons sake.

[turboguzzi]

all you have to do is measure outside diameter, wire thicknes and amount of active coils (including fractions of turns)  and feed into one of the many online spring rate calculators in the net.....for wire thicknes take out about .1mm as it's a critical dimension in the formula and paint doesnt act as a spring

[bwaller]

TG, I still think setting the sag at 25% with twins is the first step, just need the right springs. Jim just add a small zip tie to the shaft to track the travel you're using. (I have Work's and all we're allowed is preload adjustment, but even so adjustment changes between a fast or short track allow full travel all the time.) Use all you can once you get the spring issue resolved.

I agree, call Fox and hope for a good rep, surely help is a phone call away.

[FunJimmy]

TG, I still think setting the sag at 25% with twins is the first step, just need the right springs. Jim just add a small zip tie to the shaft to track the travel you're using. (I have Work's and all we're allowed is preload adjustment, but even so adjustment changes between a fast or short track allow full travel all the time.) Use all you can once you get the spring issue resolved.

I agree, call Fox and hope for a good rep, surely help is a phone call away.

Correct spring rate is always the first step and sag is the measure of that. Everything else goes off after the spring rate and sag settings are confirmed. I find it odd that the recommended spring rate for the rear is almost twice that of the front. These vintage bike don't have high leverage linkage suspensions so why would we need that high a spring rate?

[tweakin]

Finally had time to read the entire post Jim, its a bummer the set up for our bikes is off...  In my experience (raced for fox back in the day) a call to the Fox tech dept should be a good first step in sorting proper set up.  My concern would be if they come with this far off of a spring set up is the valving going to be correct for your bike as well.  Just because the shocks are the correct length and have an eye to clevis mount doesn't necessarily mean they are correct for your bike, as you know.  Hope you get everything sorted soon.

Nice Jim!

[FunJimmy]

Finally had time to read the entire post Jim, its a bummer the set up for our bikes is off...  In my experience (raced for fox back in the day) a call to the Fox tech dept should be a good first step in sorting proper set up.  My concern would be if they come with this far off of a spring set up is the valving going to be correct for your bike as well.  Just because the shocks are the correct length and have an eye to clevis mount doesn't necessarily mean they are correct for your bike, as you know.  Hope you get everything sorted soon.

Good point Tige. The compression and rebound circuits have quite a bit of adjustment so hopefully they can manage the change in spring rate. I'd hate to have to ship them back for valving too.

Something else that could be compounding the problem is stuffing a 9" spring into an 8 1/4" space. That's about 20mm of factory preload. Twice what I'd have expected and equates to 30kg (66 pounds) per shock.

[MRieck]

I agree....you have to have space behind the preload collar.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wow!  This is having me hesitate on using the RC1s for my next build, unless Fox shows Jim some proper customer service love.

[FunJimmy]

Wow!  This is having me hesitate on using the RC1s for my next build, unless Fox shows Jim some proper customer service love.

Look like they may be going back for refund.
Fox doesn't seem to be serious or ready for the SOHC4 market yet.

This is the responce from Fox.



Hey Jim
 
As Devin mentioned, the top mount on these shocks, when used for a Honda, needs to have a sleeve and bushing in the eyelet in order accommodate the diameter of the upper post. I wouldn’t be concerned with not having perfect alignment. The bushings, although on the stiffer side, are designed to deal with a range of movement. We’ve installed these on a lot of bikes (including my own) with no issues. I now understand that you have made your own bushings. So hopefully this will work well for you with whatever option you decide 
 
Here is a link to spring preload. I’ve attached a picture as well so you know what to look for. It’s very simple, when you know what to look for. Sorry it wasn’t more clear.

http://www.ridefox.com/technology.php?m=moto&t=sp&ref=lnav_tech
Spring Preload
 
Agreed, that there is no user manual included. Although, FOX does list a large amount of suspension set information on line. In combination with the above link, this is another valuable one;
http://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=powersports&ref=topnav
 
 Finally, in a follow up conversation with Devin, I understand that you might be looking for a further reduction in spring rate. A lighter weight spring is not available from FOX. These shocks have been installed on numerous unaltered CB550s with similar ride weight with good success.  Keep in mind these shocks are designed to fit a wide range of bikes and rider weight. At times, it might not be perfect for all bike. But should be able to get you in the ballpark for a good set up.   
 
Let me know if you have further questions
 
Stacey Sell
FOX Global Distributor Sales – Customer Operations - BIKE


 

[Retro Rocket]

Fox doesn't seem to be serious or ready for the SOHC4 market yet.

That's an understatement...   Most of what he said in his reply was rubbish, considering its coming from a suspension "specialist"...

[calj737]

Fox doesn't seem to be serious or ready for the SOHC4 market yet.

That's an understatement...   Most of what he said in his reply was rubbish, considering its coming from a suspension "specialist"...

Curious why you both think that? Admittedly, the SOHC market for them must be minute, but given the shocks were developed for SOHCs (a few different models across the range) they will not suit each bike/rider equally. But isn't that what adjustments are for, to help get to where you want?

I'm asking as I haven't yet understood you (Jimmy) to have installed and ridden them. I get it that you're attempting to set them up beforehand so your tuning would be closer, but the link Stacey provided cite a 35-45% preload and your original target was 25%.

[bwaller]

Jim did install and couldn't get anywhere near even 1/3 of that 25% sag, let alone 35-45% ( which would be too much for a sporting ride)

Too bad Jim, I appreciate your disdain. Back to the Works. 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Yeah, I think I'll skip the drama and work with Works.

[Stev-o]

Sorry to hear.  Was hoping to pick up a good set of used Works. 

[MRieck]

 Try YSS or Wilbur.

[FunJimmy]

Curious why you both think that? Admittedly, the SOHC market for them must be minute, but given the shocks were developed for SOHCs (a few different models across the range) they will not suit each bike/rider equally. But isn't that what adjustments are for, to help get to where you want?

I'm asking as I haven't yet understood you (Jimmy) to have installed and ridden them. I get it that you're attempting to set them up beforehand so your tuning would be closer, but the link Stacey provided cite a 35-45% preload and your original target was 25%.

Cal,

I may not be an expert in the field of suspension but I have read a lot on the topic and have a very good feel for a well setup bike. I spend a lot of money on high quality components and even more time and effort tuning for a spirited pace. Everything I read, including the material from Fox states that sag is the first thing that needs to be set correctly. Without the correct sag settings (spring rate & preload) nothing else can be set correctly. Compression and rebound circuits do not correct over or under sprung suspension.

Fox is a massive player in the high performance suspension business. They make suspension for almost everything that competes and they know their stuff. To make a statement like "I understand that you might be looking for a further reduction in spring rate. A lighter weight spring is not available from FOX" is unacceptable. I'm not looking for a lighter weight spring. I require one! At 193#' I'm not a light fella and I can't even get close to 20% sag with the lightest weight spring offered by FOX. The right responce should have been, "A lighter weight spring is currently not available. If you would be interested in helping with spring recommendations, we will wind a variety of lighter springs and ship them to you. Find the best spring for your application and return the rest. Thank you for your assistance, FOX Racing."

That's the professionalism I expect from a leader in the high end performance suspension business.
Am I wrong?

Finally, in a follow up conversation with Devin, I understand that you might be looking for a further reduction in spring rate. A lighter weight spring is not available from FOX. These shocks have been installed on numerous unaltered CB550s with similar ride weight with good success.  Keep in mind these shocks are designed to fit a wide range of bikes and rider weight. At times, it might not be perfect for all bike. But should be able to get you in the ballpark for a good set up.   

[bwaller]

Is there any chance you could source a different rate spring elsewhere and still keep those beauties?

Agreed you shouldn't have to, but it almost sounds like they're suggesting that without giving you the source!