Author Topic: 78 CB 550K motor rebuild (Read 60644 times)

AlekStooge · « **Reply #450 on:** June 11, 2019, 07:25:48 AM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on June 11, 2019, 04:37:24 AM

You need to plug the starter hole and tach hole.

Of course, but what is an elegant way to do that?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #451 on:** June 11, 2019, 07:55:06 AM »

You can buy them, probably the most elegant way instead of trying to rig something up.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #452 on:** June 11, 2019, 09:20:00 AM »

Done, Cycle X had the tach plug. I didn't find starter plugs anywhere. I'll ask on the high performance section. I'm going to check my plugs today to confirm on which cylinders it's firing. I don't know what after that.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #453 on:** June 12, 2019, 11:37:02 AM »

So as I suspected 2 and 3 are running and 1 and 4 are not.

Here is 2

I hope this is just rich and not oil. I suspected I might have previously flooded the engine with all those kicks, before I got the tank on. I'm not sure if this is re-useable but I cleaned it off and flossed it with a towel between the gap. Came right off.

Same plug as above, 3 was the same.

All signs are pointing to ignition but I wouldn't know what to do with that. I'm pretty confident I set it well.

Also the plug wire on 4 is a concern. It just doesn't feel like it sits tight enough. It's too easy to pull it out. Someone told me I can cut it back and twist a strand around the bolt.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #454 on:** June 13, 2019, 04:38:50 AM »

Can you confirm there’s no spark on 1/4 by holding the plug against the case and cranking the motor? I’m assuming you have the C5 installed correctly using their fairly strict guidelines. If the timing is set from tdc on 1/4 then both 1/4 and 2/3 are set automatically.

I’ve never heard of wrapping the wire around the “bolt”. But you can cut like a 1/4” off the plug wire and rethread it on the plug cap screw. Not sure why it would feel easy to pull off if you’re using their supplied new plug wires. You only need to thread the cap on a few turns.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #455 on:** June 13, 2019, 04:39:38 AM »

The C5 site has a good trouble shooting page.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #456 on:** June 13, 2019, 05:56:31 AM »

Do you cut the wire with snips? I have some spark plug wire cutter thing I got a while ago. I didn't know the wire threads in I thought it was just pressed into the boot. I got my C5 from a member on the forum.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #457 on:** June 13, 2019, 06:44:57 AM »

Quote from: AlekStooge on June 13, 2019, 05:56:31 AM

Do you cut the wire with snips? I have some spark plug wire cutter thing I got a while ago. I didn't know the wire threads in I thought it was just pressed into the boot. I got my C5 from a member on the forum.

You cut the wire with some sort of tool that has a blade or two. I mean, scissors could work. It just should be a nice clean cut. Don’t use a butter knife or chainsaw.

If you have normal NGK type plug caps with the screw terminal inside then you push and thread the wire on the cap.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #458 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:19:34 AM »

https://4into1.com/ngk-spark-plug-ignition-coil-cable-splicer/

I have a splicer. Won't cutting the insulation just shorten the cable, don't I have to strip it back to expose the wire like when working with any other cable. I have friend that can help me with this, if needed.

What do you think of the plugs on 2&3? I set timing with 1&4 at TDC using the piston stop and degree wheel.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #459 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:44:27 AM »

Since you said the plug cap seems easy to pull off the wire, I suggested to cut the whole wire a bit (yes, that will shorten it) just to get to fresh wire to then thread properly back on the screw terminal of the plug cap. Splicing doesn’t have anything to do with this process. This is only if you have the normal plug caps with the screw terminals inside, as I said before. Only you can determine if that’s what you have. There is nothing about stripping the copper wire core back and wrapping it around any “bolt” in this process.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #460 on:** June 13, 2019, 08:01:54 AM »

I will try to twist what I have now to thread it in, before I do any cutting.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #461 on:** June 13, 2019, 04:49:46 PM »

It screwed in, I didn't have to cut it. Feels nice and snug.

I put power on and I tried to kick a few times holding the spark plug threads on the head and exhaust flanges not spark in 1/4. I tried the same thing on 3 and no spark. I tested continuity on the engine head and it's grounded.

I took my tank off and checked my connections at the coils and 1 was loose. I tried to push and screw that one in. I got it somewhat tight but doesn't feel like the other 3. I also tested continuity across the wire while I had it off and nothing. I pulled 4 off and same thing no continuity. How that work with the coils. I know they are grounded only at TDC, if the timing is on point. Shouldn't they still have continuity?

Last, I noticed this before but I didn't think anything of it because t's beyond my head. I tested continuity from + power on the coil to the "do not remove nut" and I get it on coil 2/3 but not 1/4? Maybe that is it. I never touched the nut with a wrench.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #462 on:** June 28, 2020, 04:46:39 PM »

Back at it. I got the bike running on all four. It was loud, I forgot I had the idel screw pretty tight when it was running on two! I posted a thread on sohc4 bikes and went back to school about testing ignitions. Coil 2/3 failed on the primary winding ohm meter measurement and failed dynamic test. I replaced the coils with Dynas. I may replace the module with a Dyna S in the future since I'm hearing C5s are crap apparently.

I have a few small problems. My alternator phase wires broke. I decided to make 3 way latch connection. I'm waiting for the wires to come in. My right side head covers leaking a little bit of oil. When installing it it didn't seem to sit right so I reinstalled it but haven't fired it back up. Last I can't seem to find the shifter spline I fabricated for my rear sets so I haven't shifted through the gears. I make another one the one I made was kinda crappy.

For those who haven't read my whole thread. I still have to get this bike painted, plated, titled etc., this isn't the final tuning. I just want to get it running decently. I'm afraid it may be burning oil. I was a little unsure when I gapped my rings. Plugs are from 1 to 4. 1 and 3 photos were taken yesterday and 2 and 4 today.

I don't know why plug 4 looks so clean. The pipe was hot. I was getting white smoke from the exhaust. That means lean or oil right? Plugs don't indicate lean. This post from previously should be my carb setup, I don't believe I changed anything. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,152261.msg1743559.html#msg1743559

wolf550 · « **Reply #463 on:** June 29, 2020, 11:30:52 AM »

Quote from: AlekStooge on June 11, 2019, 09:20:00 AM

Done, Cycle X had the tach plug. I didn't find starter plugs anywhere. I'll ask on the high performance section. I'm going to check my plugs today to confirm on which cylinders it's firing. I don't know what after that.

I got my starter plug from frank, Member 754 up in Canada.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #464 on:** June 30, 2020, 08:40:03 AM »

Thanks! Messaged him.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #465 on:** June 30, 2020, 08:53:40 AM »

Ok, the side cover leak is intresting. I took them off and discovered this.

This is the cover that was leaking. I was concerned at the gap I saw when originally installing.

This is the other one, non leaking. I noticed they were different. That reminded me I pulled the leaking one (first photo) off a CB 500 motor because the one on that side was cracked. So I went down to the basement...

Huh? This is the cracked CB 550 one. It looks like the 500 one that is leaking. Ok?

This is the 550 one, installed on the non leaking side. Fits and sits well.

I tried the same cover on the other side. It doesn't sit well and the gap is present. This tells me the covers aren't the problem. I'm at a loss. Anyone else have this problem?

AlekStooge · « **Reply #466 on:** June 30, 2020, 05:19:57 PM »

I tried installing the cover on from the 500. I removed the screw underneath. I tried pushing forward on the L-shapped bracket, tried pulling it back, tried leaving it a little loose. I was able to get it to sit flush before screwing it in but it always pushes out when the allen head is installed on the outside. Part 5 is the L shaped bracket.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k-1978-usa_model7222/partslist/E++01.html#.XvvUm5pOmdk

I fired the bike up twice. First time only ran on 1&2 and shut off after a minute. It was leaking oil from that cover. Second time ran for 3 minutes on all 4 until I shut it off. Cover was leaking. There was also a small leak around the oil pan drain plug. Could it be I put too much oil in. I followed the quantity for engine rebuild. I removed the plugs and cylinder 4 hole was smoking. Pipes 1&2 were a little hotter but that makes sense since they ran a little longer. Plugs are from 4-1 moving down.

Could this be just oil burning during break in? I've never built an engine before but I heard that happens.

Little_Phil · « **Reply #467 on:** July 01, 2020, 02:04:01 AM »

Usual leak from end covers is from under L brackets. There is a ali crush sealing washer between the bracket and head and plane washer atop bracket. Do not overtighten...easy to strip thread.

river · « **Reply #468 on:** July 01, 2020, 06:53:28 AM »

I fought a leak from the cam covers as well on my motor. A good bit was from the crush washer under the L brackets but then I still had issues from where the o rings are. Out of desperation (because my OCD cannot tolerate leaks) I put an o ring in each hole on the head cover and then reinstalled the cam covers and that took care of it. When I installed the cam covers I could feel the additional o rings seat.

And now that I read Phil's comment again, I ditched the alloy crush washers under the L brackets and used copper ones because the others were not sealing.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #469 on:** July 01, 2020, 08:32:52 AM »

Quote from: Little_Phil on July 01, 2020, 02:04:01 AM

Usual leak from end covers is from under L brackets. There is a ali crush sealing washer between the bracket and head and plane washer atop bracket. Do not overtighten...easy to strip thread.

Yes, I was looking at that last night. I checked David Silver but he doesn't have the 6.5mm washer. Then I remember my machinest friend gave me some washers for Christmas, he made a big deal about them, I'm like WTF? They are gasket washers and I able to get 6mm to thread on.

I'll try it out. As for the top washer strange size 11mm, I don't think I have those.

River: so you just added an extra o-ring and it worked?

I watch several compression test and leak down videos. Yeah I'm starting to accept that my engine is burning oil and I'll have to dig into it. That's okay. It's how things go sometimes. I don't have my torque wrenches or most of my tools with me, they are 5 hours away at school.

river · « **Reply #470 on:** July 01, 2020, 09:37:44 AM »

Yes. I did not have issues with leaks there before my top end rebuild. But I used a different head and an upgraded cover as well. I used new o rings, tried different ones, looked at slightly thicker ones (didn't like how they felt) and finally tried this (I saw someone else did that at some point while searching). I'll also add that I've had some end covers sit pretty snugly while others have a decent gap between them and the cam cover.

wolf550 · « **Reply #471 on:** July 01, 2020, 10:58:06 AM »

another option for the single bolt washers are Dowty Seal washers or some call bonded seal washers.
they look like washers with an oring on the inside of them.
I had the side cap covers leak even after replacing the washers.
saw a thread about the dowty washers. bought, installed and now the end caps are always dry.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #472 on:** July 01, 2020, 01:34:40 PM »

Quote from: river on July 01, 2020, 09:37:44 AM

Yes. I did not have issues with leaks there before my top end rebuild.

Neither did I.

I installed the cover with my gasket washers and the cover sat flush (good!). I fired it up for 3 min no leak. Now the other side started leaking. The only thing that changed was me installing the washer on that side as well. I retorqued twice and ran it each time in between. Still leaks! The side with the original leak was still good. I ran the bike one more time and now both sides are leaking again. Can I get break?

Sometimes it looks like it is leaking from the side sometimes it definently is from under. If you look at the picture from before with the washer on the screw. The washer isn't straight. Maybe it needs to sit over night. Maybe I should try different washer, like the Dowty washers.

Other than that base gasket had a slight leak. Wasn't always present when I shut off the bike. Not too worried about it.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #473 on:** July 01, 2020, 01:59:02 PM »

Assortment or get 100 from McMaster Carr. They are like 20 min from me. How often do these come in handy on motorcycles?

https://www.mcmaster.com/dowty-washers/

https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-180-Pcs-Metric-Bonded-Assortment/dp/B07CKVYWD4/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&qid=1593636643&refinements=p_n_feature_eleven_browse-bin%3A3622111011&s=industrial&sr=1-3

wolf550 · « **Reply #474 on:** July 01, 2020, 02:30:48 PM »

I got a couple packs of 7 on ebay for 8 bucks each.
there is a guy that sells a single metric one for 8 bucks each that was the right size.
bought these a little less than a year ago and never changed them.
I still have 10 left.

The other option is the original washers that I still have for that just in case moment.
I think the originals get molded over the hole where the bolt goes in making a tight seal
I never used them though after buying the dowty washers.

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Author Topic: 78 CB 550K motor rebuild (Read 60644 times)