Author Topic: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer  (Read 171372 times)

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Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #200 on: February 19, 2017, 04:03:24 PM »
I have to make the correct length camchains for mine. People suck in their breath but it's fine as long as you do a good job on a true rivot link, not a press type. Tsubaki don't offer anymore but check for DID and whatever CycleX is offering.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #201 on: February 20, 2017, 12:10:23 AM »
I have to make the correct length camchains for mine. People suck in their breath but it's fine as long as you do a good job on a true rivot link, not a press type. Tsubaki don't offer anymore but check for DID and whatever CycleX is offering.
+1, make sure you have a nice, weighty dolly to hammer the pin against

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #202 on: February 24, 2017, 07:44:21 AM »
Good thoughts on the cam chain gents. I will talk to Cycle X and see what they can offer. This was a sub-20K mile engine so I may throw caution to the wind since it won't have a high lift cam or stronger springs, but we'll see.

Nothing too outrageous going on other than getting the roller off the bench and on the floor in place of my Vintage Speed Part project, which has been relegated to the back burner for now. Days are coming and going fast on this one.



I have take a number of trail measurements with my 45mm offset trees and with the forks where I think they will be once complete, I am in the 95mm area for trail. I will double and triple check these figures again before I commit to triple trees, but I am close.

I have also filled out the swingarm geometry form from Race Tech for the shocks so that order will be going in soon, along with a spring/emulator kit for the GL forks.

Ideas are flowing for a simple and light seat mount so that will be buttoned up soon as well.

Rearset bracket designs are at the water jet shop now. I am using the approach Haybus used on his racer, with welded tabs on the frame and an aluminum bracket that sandwiches between those to hold the peg assemblies. Should be easy to repair in the event that the rubber side goes up so that will be nice.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:11:37 PM by slikwilli420 »
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline 754

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #203 on: February 24, 2017, 09:22:08 AM »
I have to make the correct length camchains for mine. People suck in their breath but it's fine as long as you do a good job on a true rivot link, not a press type. Tsubaki don't offer anymore but check for DID and whatever CycleX is offering.
+1, make sure you have a nice, weighty dolly to hammer the pin against
Just use chain peening tool.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #204 on: February 28, 2017, 04:49:46 PM »
So I talked to Ken at cycle x today and laid out my intentions and he didn't think a new cam chain on a stock motor was necessary so I'll probably just do a cam and sprocket and call it good.

Regarding caliper to spoke clearance, I have about 1/8"at this point. Is that enough or should I design a little more spread into the triple trees?
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #205 on: March 01, 2017, 06:12:29 AM »
I have about 1/8" minimum. Should be good.



Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #206 on: March 01, 2017, 06:51:27 AM »
Thanks Brent! Always nice to have guys chime in who are currently racing these machines. You, Haybus and a few others have been invaluable in my quest to race my SOHC.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline MRieck

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #207 on: March 01, 2017, 09:31:37 AM »
I have to make the correct length camchains for mine. People suck in their breath but it's fine as long as you do a good job on a true rivot link, not a press type. Tsubaki don't offer anymore but check for DID and whatever CycleX is offering.
The old Yamaha triples all used rivet cam chains. I used several in the CB175 race engines. No problems. Only tough thing was getting the correct link....you need a soft nose. Some of the links were hard and impossible to peen. I used the Motion Pro tool that has a cam chain tip.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #208 on: March 01, 2017, 04:26:24 PM »
It just takes a little patience rivoting. Mike if you find those rivots anywhere let me know, I only have a couple left.

Offline Rocketman

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #209 on: March 01, 2017, 06:15:59 PM »
Check Mike's XS for the cam chain master links.

https://www.mikesxs.net/engine/camshafts-cam-chains-valves-guides.html

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #210 on: March 01, 2017, 07:14:56 PM »
Thanks Martin, I'll see if they have a match.

Offline scottly

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #211 on: March 01, 2017, 07:59:43 PM »

Regarding caliper to spoke clearance, I have about 1/8"at this point. Is that enough or should I design a little more spread into the triple trees?
Since you are making custom triples anyway, why not increase the width? It might allow more wheel/ brake choices later?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline scottly

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #212 on: March 01, 2017, 08:06:31 PM »
The old Yamaha triples all used rivet cam chains.
So did the award winning TX 750 Yamaha twin. (The award was for one of the worst motorcycles of all time. :P) I threw in the towel on that bike after I learned I had to split the cam chain to pull the head to replace the leaky gaskets, then rivet it back together.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #213 on: March 02, 2017, 05:52:25 AM »

Regarding caliper to spoke clearance, I have about 1/8"at this point. Is that enough or should I design a little more spread into the triple trees?
Since you are making custom triples anyway, why not increase the width? It might allow more wheel/ brake choices later?

For now, wheels and brakes are locked in based on the class rules, but I do agree that a little more than you need is better than a little less. I will need to remake the wheel spacers to compensate, but at this point, its no big deal. I am on the narrow side of 1/8" clearance and would not want to have the spokes flex and touch the caliper.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #214 on: March 02, 2017, 07:05:55 AM »
Just sent the designs for the trees in to be cut!

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:12:10 PM by slikwilli420 »
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
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AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - caliper to spoke clearance?
« Reply #215 on: March 02, 2017, 07:07:28 AM »
WE also don't want your spokes to touch the caliper ;) ;)

Wider fork spacing gives you more leverage :) :)
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2017, 07:43:35 AM »
I added 0.2" to the total width which should get me in a much better place, though it will hardly be noticeable by eye.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer
« Reply #217 on: March 02, 2017, 09:53:35 AM »
 If your spoke flex 1/8 of an inch, it means they are not tight..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #218 on: March 14, 2017, 06:56:12 AM »
I am looking at batteries as I check things off the list, which is starting to get a bit shorter. I am running the Dyna S with 3ohm coils and their wires for now and want to know what battery the other race guys are using? I really have no clue how to match battery output with the needs of the ignition since I will be running total loss. I may run more than one race per day so something that I can charge quickly or will last 2 races (8 laps each to be safe). Looking at Antigravity I found these:

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/extreme-power/sc-1/comment-page-1/#comments

and this one, or its 8 cell big brother

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-401/

It sounds like I would need a special charger for these, but for slower charging a battery tender will work fine.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline Rocketman

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #219 on: March 14, 2017, 07:07:25 AM »
I'm running a small lead acid battery that fits inside the seat bubble.  I charge it after 2 practice sessions or races.  Never had an issue.  When I get back to my shop next weekend I'll update this with the battery size.  A number of racers are using lithium batteries to save weight with good success.

Checked and I am using a sealed battery from Batteries Plus.  Model PTX4LBS-FS  12V3AH (10HR)  It weighs 3 lbs.  My ignition is an Accent and the Coils are 3 Ohm Dyna's.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 09:25:59 AM by Rocketman »

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #220 on: March 14, 2017, 07:40:39 AM »
A 4 cell isn't enough battery. Considering warm up time, delay on the mock grid idling, a warm up lap, then an 8 lap race and even the possibility of a red flag and potentially more idling.....no bueno.  ;D Even at idle you'll consume battery power. You can test what the current draw of the Dyna S is once the bike is running.

I made my own 8 cell batteries from DeWalt 36V packs when people were selling off excess batteries and they were cheap. Nowadays there are no deals but individual A123 26650 cells can be purchased but are often Chinese knock offs.

An 8 cell with my current ignition gives me minimum 45 minutes straight run time. I can get two 20 minute practice sessions or two heat races at least then I switch batteries. Recharge times are short with Lithium. They run out of juice quickly too, just like the engine is running our of fuel. I won't continue to use a battery if it shows less than 11.8V.

Don't recharge immediately after use, let it rest for 1/2 hr before charging. I've read that these batteries will continue as new for 1000 charges, so I won't use it for only one session then recharge, but try to discharge to a similar point if possible before recharging. A volt meter is your friend, as much as a fuel measuring stick, marked off in graduations.  ;)

I have always used a Battery Tender Plus, actually have two. Most big battery outfits recommend their special Lithium chargers, but I never bothered. It's been 6 years and they are still great. I did have a new small lead acid spare I used for practice that lasted only two years!

I am waiting for a response about another 8 cell battery and can let you know how that works out. 

Here's a letter I received back from a Shorai rep about their batteries. Some honesty frankly. On the other hand the Batterystuff rep was "best of luck in your search"!! I didn't approach anyone else, but be forewarned before buying a battery to tell them it's for a total loss race bike.


Brent,
 
At this time, the LFX is designed for use as a powersports starter battery only and is not suitable for total loss systems.   I do realize that some racers do us this (micro sprtint, vintage, and kart).  They have the Shorai charger and a Sentry to make sure the battery is balanced and charged after each race.
 
Please see the below regarding actual capacity, howerver, to determine if this suits your needs.
 
Lithium Iron Phosphate has 1/3 the actual capacity of the lead acid equivalent and should not be used as a power supply in a total loss system (i.e. powering for lights, stereos, computers, etc.)  Our LFX14 is 4Ah, the LFX36 is not 36Ah; it is 12Ah total and only 80% of that should be used before charging again.  Our batteries should not be discharged below 12.86V or it will damage the cells over time.
 
It may be best to find a Lithium (energy cell) that has a lower discharge rate (anywhere from 2C to 10C is more suitable for your application) but has more capacity.  Our batteries have a very high C rate (45C) for energy delivery to crank vehicles but low capacity for total loss systems hence they are not compartible for such usage.
 
What is the amperage draw as you may be able to use a 10C discharge rate battery. You may want to look into “CTC Batteries” (Try BatteryStuff.com) which are true deep cycle lithium batteries; they also have a low voltage cut off, and are lower C rate.  You can’t start a vehicle on it but it will run as a power supply.
 
 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 07:55:45 AM by bwaller »

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #221 on: March 14, 2017, 08:59:58 AM »
R-man and Brent thanks for the information.

I went ahead and called Antigravity and got a tech on the line, and while the AG-801 isn't "rated" for total loss, he says a ton of guys run that setup on the track, and the key is to make sure it doesn't over charge (no issue with right charger) or get too low (10.4v).

This battery is rated at 5.5Ah, and I will just need to figure out the draw from the coils/ignition and get an idea of what I can get out of it regarding time.

He also said that the charger/maintainer they recommend will get the battery topped off in as little as 10 min, and always under a half hour assuming it wasn't discharged below 10.4v.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline Haybus

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #222 on: March 14, 2017, 07:09:51 PM »
Matt, I've been using a Turnigy 4S1P Lipo 14.8V 5000mAh battery, actually two because they're only $25. I charge them with a Turnigy 10A charger, off a Costco jump battery when I have no power, off a recycled PC power supply when I have AC or a generator. The batteries are cased in a hard pack, so fairly durable. The dyna has no problem at the max 16.85V they'll charge to, and works fine down to 12V (though you shouldn't take the batteries that low on purpose). My pit mate and I have gotten 3 20 minute track day sessions, easily over an hour, out of a battery before recharging. My system draws 3Ah, but I'm only running the Dyna S and a Speedhut tach, nothing else. The lipo's are a little heavier than the some of the more modern batteries, like LiFePo4, but they're pretty proven to not catch fire under extreme discharge. A factor that was pretty important to me!!

Alan
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76 KZ900

Offline scottly

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #223 on: March 14, 2017, 07:46:53 PM »
Alan, I was under the impression the LiPo batteries were implicated in fires, not LiFePo4??
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline scottly

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Re: CB750 AHRMA Sportsman 750 Racer - battery suggestions?
« Reply #224 on: March 14, 2017, 08:12:33 PM »
Even at idle you'll consume battery power. You can test what the current draw of the Dyna S is once the bike is running.
With an inductive ignition, the power consumption is greater at idle than at higher RPMs; with stock points and coils, I measured about 2.5A at idle, and about 1.5A at 8000 RPM. The 3 ohm coils with points would increase the current to about 4A at idle, but the decline at RPM may not be as significant, due to the induction of the coils. I bench tested my A123 4 cell battery when I first got it six years ago, using a 60W car headlight as a load (the average current was 4.5A). The battery dropped to 12.0V after about 23 minutes, and dropped to 8.0V three minutes later.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....