Topic: Need some help trying to start bike with suspected frigged kill switch

[scottly]

Unplugged the black wire to kill and the horn and had dash lights, signals.  Plugged the horn back in and had beep beep. 

Then plugged in the black kill switch wire back in and pop goes the fuse.

Ding ding ding!!! Disconnect the other switch wires, leaving the black wire plugged in, and see if the fuse blows. If it does, the problem is something shorted to the handle bars in the starter housing.

[b1jackson]

So disconnect the horn wire (black) the brown and just leave the two blacks plugged in?

[scottly]

No, I meant the other wires in the bundle that comes from the switch housing: The black/red, the black/white, and the yellow/red. If they are all on a single plug, then never mind.

[b1jackson]

Ah, I see.  But maybe an unnessary step unless I wanted to determine if it's in the "kill" side or the "start" side of the switch isn't it?  If I am going to put a new switch in anyway, it should be just a plug and play once I figure out how to remove the cables from the throttle grip.

Although frustrating by times (much of the time!) this has been a good exercise in going over the wiring of the bike and fixing up potential future bad connections, adding some shrink wrap where needed, liquid tape, etc.  The only light I noticed not working was one signal but that seems pretty easy now!

[scottly]

Yeah, it would only make sure that the problem is in the switch housing, and not in the headlite, starter, or ignition circuits. It may be something as simple as a wire pinched through the insulation between the two halves of the switch housing.

[b1jackson]

I had the switch halves pulled apart and couldn't see a pinch anywhere.  Given the state that my broken starter button is in, I'd have to say it's there.

But hey, what's one more test?!

Aftermarket switches OK?  I see some are available and not too bad of price.  Is there a how to or a sticky that covers the swap?

[scottly]

If it were me, I would try to repair the stock part first, or at least identify the exact fault. Be sure you un-do any changes you made to the solenoid and it's wiring.   

[b1jackson]

Yes, I did see the thread on the switch rebuild and repair but that's way above what I'd want to tackle.  The only thing I still have unhooked is the fuse block and I'm still going to replace it with a modern one.  I've been careful in reassembly after each test so I don't end up with a mess on my hands.

The PO had a little bolt threaded in the hollow starter button since it was busted so I imagine that the short is in the starting circuit.

[scottly]

Just for grins, with the switch halves pulled apart and isolated from the handle bar with a piece of heavy paper, see if a fuse blows. BTW, Hondaman makes plug-and-play blade type fuse boxes.

[BomberMann650]

4into1.com has replacements.

A former employer of my gave me a rule when I was building his custom bicycles and repairing the shop customers rides.

The rule "If it cost less than $500, replace it."

[scottly]

Jackson, now that we know what's going on, if you connect the black/white harness wire to a solid black harness wire, it will power up the ignition with the key switch on. To spin the starter, assuming the stock wiring is correct, AND the trans is in nuetral and/or the clutch lever is pulled in, momentarily connect the harness yellow/red wire to 12v. Of course, you could also short the solenoid posts with a screwdriver. 

[b1jackson]

I think I'll just try the "less sparks" method you suggested in post #7 rather that arc the solenoid posts.  The secret is now I have ignition!

[b1jackson]

4into1.com has replacements.

I see that but the shipping and importing cost is a hassle.  Vintage cb750 has them as well I believe.

[b1jackson]

If it were me, I would try to repair the stock part first, or at least identify the exact fault. Be sure you un-do any changes you made to the solenoid and it's wiring.

I peeled back some tape from the wires going into the kill switch.  The black/white one was scorched and rough in quite a few places.  The rest were all ok.  Just for kicks I stuck in a new black/white at a junction point (the switch must have been replaced once before), hooked everything else up back to stock and popped the fuse again.  So that's as far as I am taking it.  New switch will be ordered.

The headlight must feed from here too.  I've got all lights working but no  headlight.

[scottly]

Yes, the headlight is tied into the starter switch: the black wire is connected to the black/red headlight wire unless the button is pressed, when the black wire is switched to the yellow/red solenoid wire.

[b1jackson]

New RH switch arrived today so will hopefully be hooking it up tonight.  Vintage CB750 had one so will be comparing with wires between the original one and this one and putting it all back together.

Sure.....it doesn't look like the original one but so what.  Its hopefully the resolve to all my wiring issues.  I have all working ignition now anyway.  Horn, signals, dash, etc.

[b1jackson]

Ok. Still confused.  Maybe it's staring at wires that's getting to me or the fact I've been on and off with this issue, waiting parts, etc.

New switch from Vintage arrived and it's not quite a plug and play as it has an on/off switch which the original doesn't and therefore some wire colors are different.  When I pulled it apart, it looks like a brown/white and black/red wire go into this part of the switch. 

So the wire colors from the new switch are:

yellow/red - (also a yellow/red wire in the bike harness)
green/red
black/white
black/red - (-also a black/red in the bike harness
green/white
black

What goes where?  How to ignore or bypass the on/off switch? 

 

[b1jackson]

Nope...that just popped the fuse.

The push start button part on the new switch has a yellow/red and green/red coming out of it. 

[scottly]

You are integrating an older style switch into a newer harness. Your original switch combined the headlight feed with the start button, while the new old style switch has separate switches for the light and starter. Also, the old style starter button provides ground to one side of the solenoid coil, while the new style provides 12V.
Starter button:
Connect the yellow/red from the switch to the yellow/red on the harness.
Connect the green/red wire to a solid black harness wire.
With no other switch wires connected, key on, in neutral (neutral light on) and or with the clutch pulled in, pressing the button should spin the starter.

Run/kill switch:
The black/white wire from the switch should connect to the harness black/white: no change.

Headlight On switch:
There should be a brown white wire on the new switch, but that must be the green/white? Verify continuity between that wire and the black switch wire when on, and no continuity when switched off. If true, connect the harness black/red wire to it. 

[b1jackson]

Ok.  Thanks.  Will try tonight and update.

[b1jackson]

Ok.  Here is where I stand.  Couple of fuse pops but mostly because I can't seem to follow directions tonight!

- yellow/red hooked to yellow/red harness wire
- green/red hooked to black wire hub in harness
- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness
-black/white hooked to black/white in harness

What works?  Everything seems to.  Dash, signals, horn, tail, headlight comes on and off with the new switch.  High beams work.

I have a left over black wires in harness?

What doesn't work?

I have no spark.  Engine cranks over fine but no spark.   

Just to catch everyone up this is a pamco system in a bike with a reproduction RH switch

[scottly]

- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness

Connect the black switch wire to a solid black harness wire.
Connect the brown/white switch wire to the black/red harness wire.

[b1jackson]

Ok.  Been away for a few days but just tried this.  Still no luck!

By doing what you last suggested, I ended up with a free red/black from the switch.

I put the black switch wire into the 4 wire hub with black input from the harness

I unplugged the brown/white switch and put it into the black/red harness wire

Still no spark and I lost use of the headlight.  Wiggled the kill switch in case it was off and blew the fuse.

All along there has been a live brown wire in the harness, disconnected by the PO and assume it had to do with the tail light since there is an aftermarket led in place.  I see no solid browns in the diagram that would come into play here.

Arrgggggg!

[scottly]

Ok.  Here is where I stand.  Couple of fuse pops but mostly because I can't seem to follow directions tonight!

- yellow/red hooked to yellow/red harness wire
- green/red hooked to black wire hub in harness
- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness
-black/white hooked to black/white in harness

What works?  Everything seems to.  Dash, signals, horn, tail, headlight comes on and off with the new switch.  High beams work.

I have a left over black wires in harness?

What doesn't work?

I have no spark.  Engine cranks over fine but no spark.   

Just to catch everyone up this is a pamco system in a bike with a reproduction RH switch

Go back to this setup and measure the voltage where the harness black/wire connects to the coils under the tank. Key on, kill switch set to run.

[b1jackson]

Here is my voltage with things hooked back up and key on.



If I unplug the two wires coming from the coils and test from the harness it drops to 0.01.