Author Topic: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?  (Read 3761 times)

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Offline ksmith0034

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Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« on: June 29, 2016, 07:50:03 PM »
1971 Honda CB750
A couple times now I have hit the starter button with my bike in gear and the kickstand down only to have it lurch forward!  :o  Is there a switch available that will lock out the starter when the kickstand is down?  I don't want a neutral switch as it might be necessary to start the bike at a light after stalling.  I am specifically looking for a way to lock it out when the side stand is down.
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Offline nicks2319

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 07:56:51 PM »
You could rig up a universal brake light switch and make it work probably.

But i'd spend less time thinking up a way to rig this and more time figuring out why the bike is stalling at a stop.

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 09:33:28 PM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 09:37:39 PM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?

Perhaps it was bypassed?

Did that to a neutral safety on my bombardier.  Because trying to get a bike into neutral whilst stuck on the open face of a dune is sketchy.

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 09:41:25 PM »
Perhaps you can adapt a modern kickstand switch to your neutral interlock.
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Offline Davez134

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 10:43:43 PM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
I'm pretty sure there isn't. Not on either of my k2's.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 11:32:04 PM »
Long time ago I had a cheap one. It was a little container with mercury and it was easy to attach to the sidestand. It didn't work long and on inspection after some weeks I discovered all mercury had leaked away. Still I think every bike should have one (not the mecury one). Why they never made that a law instead of wasting good mirrors with texts, remains a mystery to me.
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 04:43:48 AM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
Think those rolled in around 1974.

Offline ksmith0034

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 04:48:37 AM »
I was really hoping someone had done this already.  I'm not an electrical engineer so I don't know if I can make something on my own or not
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 05:07:41 AM »
Quote
I was really hoping someone had done this already.
So was I, as I sometimes forget to retract my sidestand which is dangerous. I often wonder why there's so little ingenuity here. A fine exception I remember is Flybox (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158068.msg1813037.html#msg1813037)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 05:10:20 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 05:18:51 AM »
Quote
When you drive away with the side stand down, momentum or friction will often pop it up anyway.
Don't I know it, but it's the way this happens. I had some narrow escapes and I remember in particular departing from quite close to a steep canyon in France where I had paused to make a picture. Scared the wits out of me. It's for this reason models for Germany had to have this special rubber tip (see various parts lists).
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2016, 05:22:02 AM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
No

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 05:26:11 AM »
If you pull the clutch in and try to start and it lurches forward, the problem is your clutch is not fully disengaging. It may need to be cleaned, replaced, adjusted, do the HondaMan extra lube trick, etc.  Sidestand switches are a pain and the manufacturers went to them for liability purposes.
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2016, 06:01:38 AM »
Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
No
Well now I know.

The 750A has a sidestand switch, but no clutch! :)
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Offline Dunk

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 06:19:47 AM »
Long time ago I had a cheap one. It was a little container with mercury and it was easy to attach to the sidestand. It didn't work long and on inspection after some weeks I discovered all mercury had leaked away. Still I think every bike should have one (not the mecury one). Why they never made that a law instead of wasting good mirrors with texts, remains a mystery to me.

Because government is evil and laws are oppressive, you may want to be careful what you wish for.  I prefer no such laws and a consumer driver market for factory and aftermarket equipment rather than a government driven market. A switch or lockout is easy enough to add if it concerns the individual. One of the reasons I stick with 60s or early 70s vehicles is to avoid absurd government laws and regulation.

In any event, I'd use a rear brake switch if it concerned me. Also I think the CB750A had some sort of sidestand switch. Maybe that would be a bolt on thing? Aside from that I'm surprised nobody has mentioned safe starting procedure... Always verify the trans is in neutral at least with the neutral light (though I usually rock it slightly forward and back to verify) and pull the clutch in when starting the engine. I also do not use the electric start, have only used it for a while while injured and able to ride again but unable to kick. Being on the bike while you start it gives you control of the situation if you have a brain fart.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 06:57:04 AM »
Sorry that I broadened the subject somewhat with departing without retracting the sidestand first. Am I the only one that had it happen a couple of times? As far as silly government laws, I think everybody knows where I stand. Bringing on the headlight before you've started is about the stupidiest
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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2016, 08:56:33 AM »
Sorry that I broadened the subject somewhat with departing without retracting the sidestand first. Am I the only one that had it happen a couple of times? As far as silly government laws, I think everybody knows where I stand. Bringing on the headlight before you've started is about the stupidiest
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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2016, 10:43:07 AM »
Maybe we could use that silly blinker buzzer that everybody disconnects anyway. Bidding is open.
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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2016, 11:37:49 AM »
Just get a kickstand from a K5 or later that has the little rubber thingy on the end.
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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2016, 04:35:05 PM »
Just get a kickstand from a K5 or later that has the little rubber thingy on the end.
The little rubber kick up came out on K2.

But that's not an answer to the OP problem.
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Offline ksmith0034

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 06:31:22 AM »
Just get a kickstand from a K5 or later that has the little rubber thingy on the end.
The little rubber kick up came out on K2.

But that's not an answer to the OP problem.
Correct, that is not what I'm asking about.  I am trying to find a way to lock out the starter when the side stand is down.  Period.
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2016, 07:38:12 AM »
Just get a kickstand from a K5 or later that has the little rubber thingy on the end.
The little rubber kick up came out on K2.

But that's not an answer to the OP problem.
Correct, that is not what I'm asking about.  I am trying to find a way to lock out the starter when the side stand is down.  Period.

A normally open momentary contact switch mounted on the frame or kickstand bracket that is closed when the kickstand is raised. Wire it into the ground lead for the starter solenoid.

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Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 02:11:38 PM »
No, that only came in later models.

Is there no clutch interlock on a K1?
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Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2016, 02:18:10 PM »
You could of course just cultivate the habit of pulling in the clutch before pushing the starter button, on all bikes, at all times, whatever the circumstances, and do the same in your manual-transmission cars.
It won't do anything about the sidestand but it will prevent the bike from lurching forward off the sidestand.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Is there a side stand switch that locks out the starter?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2016, 07:56:14 PM »
The gist of the "safety module" was to prevent starting unless the bike was in Neutral or else the clutch lever was pulled in.
There were a VERY few of the 750K3 bikes that also had a sidestand switch, which lasted less than a month in production in late 1972, and was discontinued so abruptly it never even showed up in the Parts Fiche system. I have only seen 2 of these bikes, ever, and both had removed the switch and bypassed its wiring.

If you want a "safety start" device (and you have a pre-1973 bike), then just get a post-1973 lefthand clutch lever and the little cable and switch that comes with it. Connect one wire of this switch to a BLACK wire under the tank and the other to a small automotive relay, #85 terminal. Connect the #86 terminal to ground (GREEN wire). Then interrupt the Yellow-Red wire that runs from the headlight bucket to the Start Solenoid, using the #30 terminal and the #87a terminal. Then, this relay will always be OPEN when the clutch lever is released, so the Start Solenoid cannot operate: pulling in the clutch will disengage the relay and open the Start circuit. You will find this simple circuit to be 100% more reliable than the cheesy versions included in these bikes in the 1970s, and the relay will cost you less than $10 at an auto parts store.

Or, like mentioned above, just remember to pull in the clutch before starting. All cars, bikes, trucks, tractors, etc., etc., made before 1964 had NO "protective devices" like these, we had to somehow survive by doing it correctly? The bikes didn't have them until Honda started doing it in 1973, then everyone started doing it: by 1980 we were removing the stupid things because they fail and leave you with only a kickstart when the engine stalls in a hot summer intersection, because the carbs got so hot they vapor-locked or flooded the engine from boiling the fuel, inside the Vetter fairing lowers...

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