Author Topic: CB 750 Has no get up and go...  (Read 1042 times)

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Offline Jonesy

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CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« on: July 02, 2016, 07:41:22 pm »
Hey all, I've got my bike back together and have had it out for some test rides. She seems to run ok, except for when starting off from a dead stop, it feels like it lacks power- you really have to rev it a feather the clutch to get it going. It idles and if you blip the throttle it will rev up without any hesitation, but as soon as you let the clutch out, it falls on its face.

I had it it tuned and running very well when it was last used regularly. I had the carbs all apart and cleaned. All the jets are genuine Keihin and I resynced the carbs after reassembly. I'm not sure if the air screws need a tweak (I removed them, and I put them back at one turn out.). The Honda manual is cryptic in how they describe the adjustment- feeling the pressure of the exhaust from the muffler with your hand...

Dumb question, but which way turning the air screws richen the mixture? Being an air bleed, I would expect turning it in would decrease the amount of air and richen the mixture. It's been so many years sine I've worked with these carbs I've forgotten some of the finer points. Thanks!
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Offline bwaller

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 08:06:30 pm »
If it's pre 77 and air screws then you're correct. Any chance the pilot jets are partially blocked?

Offline Jonesy

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 08:07:58 pm »
It's a '73. I have a set of jet wires and I ran them through each pilot jet.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2016, 08:14:18 pm »
Hey all, I've got my bike back together and have had it out for some test rides. She seems to run ok, except for when starting off from a dead stop, it feels like it lacks power- you really have to rev it a feather the clutch to get it going. It idles and if you blip the throttle it will rev up without any hesitation, but as soon as you let the clutch out, it falls on its face.

I had it it tuned and running very well when it was last used regularly. I had the carbs all apart and cleaned. All the jets are genuine Keihin and I resynced the carbs after reassembly. I'm not sure if the air screws need a tweak (I removed them, and I put them back at one turn out.). The Honda manual is cryptic in how they describe the adjustment- feeling the pressure of the exhaust from the muffler with your hand...

Dumb question, but which way turning the air screws richen the mixture? Being an air bleed, I would expect turning it in would decrease the amount of air and richen the mixture. It's been so many years sine I've worked with these carbs I've forgotten some of the finer points. Thanks!

Hi, Jonesy!
Turning the screws only works over the range of 1/2 turn to 1.75 turns: beyond that the mixture does not change any further. If your carbs are the 1969-1976 type of the "K" bikes, the setting is 1.0 turn out, within 1/8 turn either way max.

That said: if the spark timing is too far advanced at idle, the bike will falter when pulling away from a stop. This also happens if the float levels are slightly low: you can test this item by backing those air screws out 1/8 turn more than where they are now, and trying a ride. If it gets better, the floats are marginally too low. This happens with the modern too-stiff springs in the new float valves we are all getting during rebuilds: I solve it by setting the floats slightly richer, like 24-25mm instead of the stock 26mm in these early carbs.

Turning the screws IN makes it run leaner, just like most old-time cars. Turning them out makes them richer. If you go too far inward, it pinches off the air to the idle jet more and more until at about 1/8 turn the air stops and the fuel cannot percolate at all (and will not mix with air, so it also will not burn): this can then make the engine rich (and plugs wet) if the idle is then held at about 2000 RPM to make it stay 'lit', so people get confused about these screws and how they work as the result.

Much of the confusion about the In-vs-Out screw mixture seems to come from the old Honda manuals that stated, "...adjust rich by turning screw in...", which, if properly translated, should have read, "...if rich, turn the screw inward...". This was typical of the Jinglish translators of the 1970s. Most of the Honda manuals after 1985 or so got it right.
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Offline mrbreeze

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 08:42:19 pm »
This is just a shot in the dark. You say it runs OK till you go to take off. Is there any chance that your front brake is partially sticking?
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Offline rrietman

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2016, 10:59:26 pm »
I've had similar symptoms on a couple 4 cyl bikes. check your points. you might be losing two cyl intermittently. you would be surprised at how well these things run on just two cyl. It will fool you.
Randy

Offline Jonesy

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 03:06:31 am »
Thanks, guys. The front brake is free and all 4 header pipes get hot soon after start-up, so it seems to be hitting on all 4, but I'll double-check the points. If it sat for 4 years, who knows what may have formed on them...

I believe I do have aftermarket float valves. What boggles my mind is that the bike ran awesome before the layup, and the only changes have been synchronization and the air screw settings.
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Offline bwaller

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 04:07:32 am »
Like you I'd lean towards a fuel issue, maybe check the petcock screen too. For #$%*s n giggles try some Seafoam or the like. I'm no proponent of fuel additives but I tried this stuff in a 400F years ago that hadn't run in years and suffered similarly to yours. I had cleaned the carbs several times but some of those tiny orifices are difficult. Good luck.

Offline Swoop

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 10:29:56 am »
I'm confused HM.

The op suggested turning in makes it richer and bwaller agreed.
You state

"Turning the screws IN makes it run leaner, just like most old-time cars.Turning them out makes them richer."
But then you say...

If you go too far inward, it pinches off the air to the idle jet more and more until at about 1/8 turn the air stops and the fuel cannot percolate at all (and will not mix with air, so it also will not burn): this can then make the engine rich (and plugs wet)

I read that as the opposite of the first statement.......too far in makes it rich?
What am I missing here.

Offline Jonesy

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 05:03:19 pm »
The fuel system should be clean- brand new Yamiya gas tank, new petcock, new fuel lines and rebuilt carbs. I'm leaning towards adjustment.
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Offline scottly

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 05:24:10 pm »
The idle mixture screws don't have much effect on "get up and go" when you are opening the throttle. Use the "clear tube method" to check your float settings; like Mark said, if the springs in the needles are stiffer than the originals, the fuel level in the bowls will be lower causing a lean condition, or if the springs are too weak will cause a high level and rich condition.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2016, 05:48:02 pm »
Another one for HondaMan: I noticed in the "Thoughts of HondaMan" FAQ you mention performance differences with ethanol-free fuel. When the bike was originally tuned I was running common 10% ethanol summer blend. This time I filled the tank with Shell V-power as its supposed to be ethanol-free. Could this be part of the problem?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 07:03:16 pm by Jonesy »
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Offline scottly

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Re: CB 750 Has no get up and go...
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2016, 06:05:03 pm »
The magic 8-ball says: Doubtful
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