Topic: Jakal cb550 project

[Darren Jakal]

Hey 754, thanks for the information !

I'm using a few different gauges and grades of aluminium (around 18 to 22 gauge). I'm trying 5052 right now, but this is really all I can find locally.

I'm doing a bit of annealing using a propane torch and soap, but really I should get a tiger torch. This metal shaping thing is becoming a longer term endeavour, but I have the winter to get it sorted.

Cheers, dj

edit to add: Frank you are right about screwing the sheet down. I've added about 12 hinges to the edges of each side of the form that allow me to clamp it down tight while the hinges allow for different angles along the length. It works well, but I do need to anneal more often as the metal does work harden and becomes difficult to continue forming.

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks Cal, I'll check it out !

cheers, dj

[Little_Phil]

So, what is it that keeps the cush drive/sprocket aligned with the rest of the wheel? There is a rubber seal on the final plate that is worn out but how do I know if this hub is OK or needs something else?

It's the fit between the hub and the sprocket holder (item 10). Should be good sliding fit. Grease between the two. There are grooves on the I/d of the holder. Often neglected (because you can only get to it by removing the retainer) and this I/d often wears and allows the carrier to slop about.

[Darren Jakal]

Hey thanks Phil for that !

dj

[754]

You should have no trouble finding 3000 series aluminum if you live near Calgary. Metal Supermarket  may be out there . we are getting some soon, wil, let you know what it cost.
 Don't make the mistake  of using the wrong material, because it's cheap, free or convenient to get.
 It can delay getting a good result..

[Darren Jakal]

Sure thing Frank, thanks.

dj

[Darren Jakal]

Damn this motorcycle hobby is becoming an addiction. I need to do some strategic planning if I want to get a bike on the road this spring. I saw this 77 CB550K roller on Kijijiji for months before I decided I could not live without it. I’m happy to have all the spare parts that would cost be a lot more if I needed to get them from the local wreckers. And now I see that someone local to me has the head and valve cover (the pinned one) for this roller engine. ARGG this is a hobby and my meager finances are getting spread pretty thin.

I should really be spending my money on the last few pieces I need to get a bike on the road. I need shocks (I’m going to get IKONS), a taillight, a headlight rig, a battery and a few other odds and end. I’ve wanted to make a fairing for the bike, but I’ve now priced a sheet of 3003 aluminum for over $300. I’m doing this low budget and can get 5052 al for next to nothing, so I would almost rather buy a tiger torch to anneal my own stock than drop the dollar on a single sheet that I know will not be enough (I’m bound to have some learning accidents).

Anyway, here are some parts for the inventory of this build thread (an archive I can come back to when I forget all the stuff I have accumulated for this project).

Cheers, dj

[754]

They wont sell you a  half sheet ?  How thick, i think .060 would work.
 Or say the longest fairing part is say 32 inch  get 33 inch by 4 ft wide cut from full sheet.

Spending 100 bux can be worth it if A it gets done sooner B saves 20 hrs or cussing and wasting time. C you get it done while you can still ride..

[Darren Jakal]

Hey Frank,

I'll eventually get the fairing done but I'm going to use the roller frame to work it out and put the original bike on the road with a temporary front end. That way I can mess around while still getting a runner going (I'd actually like to try making a racer as I do have an attraction to danger and racing a motorcycle would scratch that itch).

That's the problem with this hobby, I get excited about making things for it and miss out on riding it! I start reading about you guys possibly making race frames and exotic engine work and I'm like "I want to do that". And I would but I only have so much money and I have a lot of other projects that I should get on (like projects for new revenue streams to pay for my future).

So, thanks for the encouragement and I'll keep going with it, but I like having two frames now: one to ride and one to mess around with.

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Ok looks like I lost a post, so here it is again.

The rear hub off the roller had a badly worn flange drive, so I cleaned up the ID as Frank suggested and made a sleeve out of delrin.

I made it out of delrin because I had some and it's easy to mill. The design of the cush drive on the 550 seems questionable, and it appears that it needs to be taken apart and greased once in a while. I figured if this is the case then I'll make it out of delrin and check it after a few miles and see how it does (I'd have to regrease anyway). If it's badly worn I'll then make a sleeve out of something else like bronze.

cheers, dj

[Little_Phil]

Yea, my post disappeared as well.
But certainly a questionable design and keep us posted how this turn out. Is the o/d of the hub ok?

[Darren Jakal]

Sure Phil, will do !

dj

edit to add: yea Phil the hub OD was OK

[Darren Jakal]

The plan is to get the engine back in the old frame and start piecing it back together. I'll then dismantle the roller and start to clean up the frame (remove the ugly welded-on tabs) and use it for future development (the fairing, side panels, rear sets, etc).

I haven't spent much time on the original engine besides cleaning it up and checking it out (looks dam good with very little signs of use or mis-use) and figured I would do some of the maintenance items when it was out of the frame and totally accessible. I removed the spark plugs (found the right socket in my Dad's tools) and fogged the engine with Fogging Oil.

I adjusted the valves and happy I did. The last person working on the bike had adjusted the intake valve clearance to essentially 0.00. Took me a while to decide what piston was on TDC as the intake valve was never loose. Spun the engine (the proper way with engine turing same direction as wheels) and watched for the intake valve to come back up and then kept rotating until the timing marks lined up to determine TDC on all cylinders. Haven't had to adjust valves since my VW Bus days in the "80s.

I then adjusted the cam chain using a method I found searching the sight:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,369.msg315851.html#msg315851

and then started to check and adjust the Points Gap. Once again I'm happy to have picked up that roller as someone working on the bike managed to strip the 1-4 point gap adjustment screw hole. So I spent some time dismantling the points plate from the roller and rebuilding it with the parts from the original plate (the roller's points and advance are well worn) and the new condenser I picked up from 4into1. The new condensers have no stamp on them, were labelled as being for a CB400 and one is silver and the other yellow (more worried about no brand stamp then the package being labelled for CB400 or being different colours).

Anyway, that's it for now. Hope to have the engine in the frame before it snows again.

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

The plan is to get the engine in the frame soon. I'm still working out the best body position and have started to investigate foot peg placement. I've heard about using CB400 pegs and also found this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=40112.0

where bwaller talks about 600F3 foot pegs. These look great and I'll look into finding a set.

I had some left over aluminum and thought I would try some placements using the passenger foot pegs just to get some ideas. I'm also of thinking of getting some adjustable Tomaselli clip-ons that I think will get my hands where I want them to be.

I also noticed that the stock foot pegs are a different length (if these are the right pegs that is). Seems that the brake side is longer. Is this right?

I also took off the fairing harness I made. I'll put it on the roller frame in order to continue the fairing development while I put the original bike together for a spring start-up

Cheers dj

[Darren Jakal]

I never know if I will get a chance during the week to work on the bike (or parts of it), but yesterday I did get to mock up some new rear sets. This is another "cheap bastard" mod that using existing parts and free material.

I have been trying out body positions doing some reading and I have come to the conclusion that I want the pegs to be directly below the swing arm pivot, much like the CB400 position, and I also want to be able to use the stock kick-starter.

The plan is to modify (shorten) the existing brake lever and make it work with the stock kickstart. And make up a shift lever system like that found on the CB400.

Anyway, that's it for now. I hope to get the engine in the frame, but it's -10 in the seacan so we'll see.

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I've replaced the engine and started to put the bike back together. I want to get the bones of it in place to then make any mods I need to finish.

Well I didn't expect to have this exhaust system interfere with the side stand mount, but it does. I believe these are Jardines but I can't find any definitive marks on them to say one way or the other.

I did check to see if there would be interference with the front wheel in a hard front dive during braking and they are good (I think it was markreimer that was having issues with a 4 into 2).

I guess I'm going to cut the side stand off as these are the pipes I have and I have no budget for another set. At least I discovered a good way to use the centre stand with little effort. I also found a thread called Centre Stand Versus Side Stand

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=108889.0

where a number of members stated that they always use the centre stand and how great it is to have one if you need to do any repairs so I'm OK with cutting off more on this frame (plus I have the new 77 550 frame that is complete so if I ever want an original 550 I can use it).

Anyway, that's it for now,

dj

[754]

There used to be an aluminum block they made for Kawis to relocate the stand. Bolts to what you got.
 Could that work?
 I suggested my buddy in Cowtown call you,he has z mill.
 Also I suggested that maybe he could split a sheet of 3003 with you. 
Trying to get him to see your metalwork and get Inspired..

[Darren Jakal]

Sounds good Frank. i've been busy with family and things, but I'm here for the long haul, so I hope to meet your friend at some point.

I'm not too worried about not having a side stand. I just don't like to needlessly cut thing off the frame.

But these pipes look too sweet to not do it.

cheers, dj

[Godffery]

 I'm guessing those pipes were made to fit the earlier frames (73-76 500/550) with the side-stand mounted forward.
I have a few of those in storage if you care to just swap it out.

[Darren Jakal]

Hi Godffery, thanks for the offer !

I assume you mean you have the side stand to swap out and not a complete frame.

Either, I will just cut it off for now and use the centre stand, but thanks again for the offer. Maybe think about it in the future.

cheers, dj

[754]

You can cut it off and relocate it, but try to use an extra layer like stock.

[Darren Jakal]

Sounds good Frank ! Thanks, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I’m hoping to put it all together for spring and I have a few items I need to confirm, decide or discover. Such as the much loved Lubrication Items. I'll make this a record of what I'm discovering in my search to help me find it again again and to share with anyone with an interest.

Lube clutch parts?

From HondaMan in this thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=7260.0

“First word: GREASE! The clutch lifters on these bikes wear more because there is much more shifting going on. Grease those lifters!”

dr. destructo says:

“whats this talk of grease fittings for the clutch lifter?  I cant find a grease fitting anywhere, and my clymer manual never mentions anything about zerk fittings either.  If my bike has zerk fittings, I'd love the use them!”

TO this TwoTired responds:

“It's only the 500 that has the clutch actuator grease fitting.”

Ok, so for my 78 550k the oil in the engine /trans lubricates the clutch. Correct?

Points cam lube? Lube the advancer weights where they pivot?

From HondaMan: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138514.0

“If the advancer weights are working OK, they probably don't need help. When I have them out, though (like engine rebuilds), I soak the whole thing in solvent to strip off all old goo, then dab a small bit of grease on the weight pivots and inside the points cam. High temp grease is good. There used to be "points grease" for the rubbing blocks, I am sad to say I used the last of mine in 2005, though. It is a yellow petroleum-based grease that is like wax, and has a great affinity for phenolic points feet. It soaks into the material and burnishes them in like glass.

MRieck suggests (same thread as adove): Mallory 26015 Distributor Grease

Also on this topic: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=149140.0

Lube the cables (clutch, speedo, tach, throttle) ?   

From bryanj:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27530.0

“NO NEVER EVER on OEM cables maybe yes on aftermarket ones.
You are correct the originals are nylon lined outerers withrubber(ish) coated wire and lube swells both till they bind. This INCLUDES WD 40 or similar as ALL the air arsole canes are Butane propelled and it the petroleum bits that cause the problem”

TwoTired (same thread as above):

I have several bikes that I switch between.  If a cable on one seems more draggy than the others, it gets a bath in dri-slide.  There is some interaction with wet weather, too.  Bikes ridden in the rain seem to need a more frequent dose.  I'd estimate every 2-3 years they get serviced.  But, if a bike was left out in the elements, I expect it would need more frequent attention.  I should note that our weather patterns are quite mild.  We average 14.4 inches of rain per year.  And we can go 6 months with no rain at all.  Then there is the bike wash routine as a factor.

To keep any rust at bay I sometimes add a drop or three of Dillon Blue Magic, which I got from Dillon Precision.  I think it is a synthetic oil with "teflium" in it, what ever that is.  It says Flouropolymer on the label. Sadly, it is no longer in their catalog.  But, they now sell this which looks interesting.  I might try it if my current 1oz, bottle ever runs out.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/24848/catid/16/Snake_Oil_0_5_oz__Bottle

Lube the caliper assembly?

Good stuff from TwoTired again: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,56544.0.html

This thread has gotten very confused.  Lets' review.
There are four products needed to restore a caliper.
1. Brake cleaner
2. Brake parts assembly lube for the caliper seal only.
3. Dow corning High vacuum grease.
4. Brake fluid

Each has it own specific application and needs for the task to be performed.

#1 is used to get everything clean.  (given the confusion, it had to be said)
#2 is used ONLY on the seal and must be compatible with #4, as some of it will invade the brake fluid chamber.
#3 is NOT used on the seal, as that would put silicone inside the brake fluid chamber.  This is a bad thing as the compounds are incompatible.  It is used behind the brake pads and a thin coat is used on the parts of the calipers and piston that are exposed to the elements and subject to water ingression.  The Dow Grease will not mix with ANYTHING.  It is a simple barrier with the very important property that it will NOT melt when the parts get hot and then run/creep into the brake pad friction material and provide lubrication between pad and disk rotor.
#4 is what makes the hydraulic part of the brake function. (I hope that part is clear.)

If anyone has anything to add or clarify on any of these lubrication matters I’d love to hear it ! I'll update as need be.

Cheers, dj

edit to add: anti-seize: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=117474.0

[Darren Jakal]

I'm going over the electrical components and getting ready to reassemble the whole electrical system once it gets warm enough to manipulate 40 year old wires without them cracking. The roller I bought has been a great help as I was having some issues with various wires being abused (the clutch switch on my bike was all f'ed up and some of the wires from the left hand switch were somehow severed, as well as the oil sensor wire).

Anyway, I recently received a new headlamp with attached wire harness (great as these things were missing from my bike). However, if I am correct and the blue and white wire from the left hand switch (high/low beam) connect to the bulb, then this wire harness is opposite to what I need (see pics or wire end connectors).

So, the questions are:

what's the easiest way to get the bulb hooked up. Find or make a new harness? or are there connectors that allow two male ends to be plugged together? others suggestions?

And what wire connects with what on the bulb? As you can see in the pics the headlamp came with wires attached, but they are blue, red and black, not white, blue and green (according to the wiring diagram that I found in the technical section and what I see com in out of my left hand switch).

Cheers, dj

edit to add what I found from 4into1:
Black is ground, blue should be Hi-Beam, and red is low beam. You can test this out by trying the wires on a battery.

Thank You

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Sometimes moving/bending old wire can cause an internal break causing an intermittent connection.  I replaced 3 old harnesses with new wiring after having these issues with 40-year-old wires.