Topic: Resurrecting the VFR stator adapted to cb550 upgrade query-- clarification

[scottly]

If the stock system drew 18.75 amps, the 15 amp main fuse would blow.

[kerryb]

Why not reduce the draw of some standard components with modern stuff?  For example, LED indicator bulbs will use fewer watts than incandescent ones, and if you select carefully you get more light output too.  Then you can start worrying  a few minutes later when waiting at the bridge crossing.

p.s.  don't you love the way a thread can morph to go different directions because we don't want put in enough words to really explain ourselves!  Yes, I read the entire thread several times before responding.

[Camrector]

Exactly. Running all Led and new electrical will decrease load considerably.
I am currently waiting on actual numbers of power output from electrixworks. Primarily  idle, low, mid, and high rpm. Then we will have hard numbers and can see if it's better than a stock system.
If the unit puts out even 1watt more than a stock system at idle, I'd say it's a better system.

[kerryb]

Yes, you would be correct, 1 watt more at idle is better.  Now we need some fancy math to figure out how many more watts are required to justify the price of that rather spendy upgrade.

[Camrector]

Kerry
What is your actual goal here with the VFR stator. Maybe we should have asked that before all the back and forth lol.
Usually in the past, this query has been asked for someone looking to run EFI on something more performance based.
Which as even Cal has stated would be perfect for this system.
I purchased it for my high compression 592 project. Not trying to run efi but do like the lightweight and overall power output.

[kerryb]

Cam, I was just joining the conversation because it is a very interesting problem to solve.  I don't need more power for my 550, it will be a basic stock rider, but for my '83 goldwing, I changed to all LED indicators and soon a headlight so as not to overload the electron-challenged alternator with the teardrop cargo trailer in tow.  The trailer is all LED's too. 
For your application, the benefits of increased hp and lighter rotational mass, more than offset the cost of the upgrade, and the added coolness is a secondary bonus!
I wish my father-in-law were still alive because he would welcome the chance to rewind the alternator in an effort to get increased output.  But, alas he is no longer with us and I just miss my wrenching buddy.
I'm just taking to Internet time 'cause my fingers are sore from sanding and polishing aluminum while I wait for paint to dry. 

[Camrector]

Sorry Kerry I thought you were the OP. And sorry for your loss as well brother.
No one can be replaced but this forum has great wrenching buddies. Although I dread the day I have to have Cal come over to my house. Lol. That will be an expensive day for me for sure! Plus I'd have to wear a helmet all day to protect from all the whacks to the back of my head.

[scottly]

Except that on the 550, that "18.75" theoretical amperage draw is split across multiple fuses.

The current through the headlight and taillight fuses comes through the main fuse first, so the main fuse carries the total load. Pull your main fuse out and see if your lights still work.

[kippstakes]

the year range you want to look at for VFR would be the vfr800 98-01. the earlier ones have the "cup" of the flywheel facing the motor, where the 98-01 has it facing the stator cover. If memory serves it was not a direct fit to the tapered end of the crank and required a spacer that had internal and external taper for the vfr flywheel to press-fit as a stock charging rotor.

I've purchased a few other flywheels to try.....cbr600rr, vlx600 shadow, and 98-06 yamaha R6.....still haven't pulled the trigger on the vfr800 flywheel yet.

of the above, the vlx600 was too large in diameter to ever have a chance at fitting under even a heavily modified stock cb650 stator cover.

the R6 and cbr600rr would both fit under the cover, but both need a taper spacer like the VFR800 would. the cbr600rr is 8oz lighter than the R6 as well as half the weight of stock CB650.

The cbr600rr has a step on the outward end of the taper with a few threads for a flywheel puller which prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as stock and R6(with adapter) would

I got tired of buying $30 flywheels for testing so I've taken a break for a bit on trying to find something. Long story short for at least the CB650 a 6 Degree taper is needed, and most I've found at 6 Degrees are larger bore at that taper requiring a spacer anyway.

regardless, I'm happy to see this discussion as the more people thinking/looking for other flywheels that fit with better output.....the better chances we have at collectively having a solution.

This excellent. Thank you for the detailed response, this gives me much to work with.

After reading over your post a few times I have a few questions. I'm considering taking a stab at adapting the cbr600rr's components.
First, the RR line was made from 01-06, and then modified a bit for the 07-12 years. Would the charging equipment be the same from 01-12?
Second, you mentioned that the RR flywheel has a step and threads that prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as the R6's. Is this preferable, or does the R6's have the advantage here?
Lastly, I will also need to purchase the stator correct? Not just the flywheel? Is the stator compatable with the stock cb550 cover? I imagine it would have to be modified somewhat at least

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Anders is still in limbo as to development of an upgraded 550 charging system -- that charges at idle.  I think MANY members would jump on that for a variety of reasons (accessories, lighter weight, etc.).  Someone near him needs to bring him a 550 for development. 

Now if only that system could translate to the 650!

[sinister902]

the year range you want to look at for VFR would be the vfr800 98-01. the earlier ones have the "cup" of the flywheel facing the motor, where the 98-01 has it facing the stator cover. If memory serves it was not a direct fit to the tapered end of the crank and required a spacer that had internal and external taper for the vfr flywheel to press-fit as a stock charging rotor.

I've purchased a few other flywheels to try.....cbr600rr, vlx600 shadow, and 98-06 yamaha R6.....still haven't pulled the trigger on the vfr800 flywheel yet.

of the above, the vlx600 was too large in diameter to ever have a chance at fitting under even a heavily modified stock cb650 stator cover.

the R6 and cbr600rr would both fit under the cover, but both need a taper spacer like the VFR800 would. the cbr600rr is 8oz lighter than the R6 as well as half the weight of stock CB650.

The cbr600rr has a step on the outward end of the taper with a few threads for a flywheel puller which prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as stock and R6(with adapter) would

I got tired of buying $30 flywheels for testing so I've taken a break for a bit on trying to find something. Long story short for at least the CB650 a 6 Degree taper is needed, and most I've found at 6 Degrees are larger bore at that taper requiring a spacer anyway.

regardless, I'm happy to see this discussion as the more people thinking/looking for other flywheels that fit with better output.....the better chances we have at collectively having a solution.

This excellent. Thank you for the detailed response, this gives me much to work with.

After reading over your post a few times I have a few questions. I'm considering taking a stab at adapting the cbr600rr's components.
First, the RR line was made from 01-06, and then modified a bit for the 07-12 years. Would the charging equipment be the same from 01-12?
Second, you mentioned that the RR flywheel has a step and threads that prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as the R6's. Is this preferable, or does the R6's have the advantage here?
Lastly, I will also need to purchase the stator correct? Not just the flywheel? Is the stator compatable with the stock cb550 cover? I imagine it would have to be modified somewhat at least

The r6 has the advantage as for the taper. I suppose the stepped/threaded part on the RR flywheel coule be milled/drilled out but you'd have less contact patch on the taper to the crank. You'd need a matched stator from either bike depending on what rotor you use....and you'd have to make a custom cover or use one of the cb650 covers cut down with the R6 or RR stator cover cut and welded to it in some fashion to mount the stator inside the cover. If the RR rotor is of interest to you, if I choose to go another route I will send it to you for what I have into it.....$35.

[kippstakes]

the year range you want to look at for VFR would be the vfr800 98-01. the earlier ones have the "cup" of the flywheel facing the motor, where the 98-01 has it facing the stator cover. If memory serves it was not a direct fit to the tapered end of the crank and required a spacer that had internal and external taper for the vfr flywheel to press-fit as a stock charging rotor.

I've purchased a few other flywheels to try.....cbr600rr, vlx600 shadow, and 98-06 yamaha R6.....still haven't pulled the trigger on the vfr800 flywheel yet.

of the above, the vlx600 was too large in diameter to ever have a chance at fitting under even a heavily modified stock cb650 stator cover.

the R6 and cbr600rr would both fit under the cover, but both need a taper spacer like the VFR800 would. the cbr600rr is 8oz lighter than the R6 as well as half the weight of stock CB650.

The cbr600rr has a step on the outward end of the taper with a few threads for a flywheel puller which prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as stock and R6(with adapter) would

I got tired of buying $30 flywheels for testing so I've taken a break for a bit on trying to find something. Long story short for at least the CB650 a 6 Degree taper is needed, and most I've found at 6 Degrees are larger bore at that taper requiring a spacer anyway.

regardless, I'm happy to see this discussion as the more people thinking/looking for other flywheels that fit with better output.....the better chances we have at collectively having a solution.

This excellent. Thank you for the detailed response, this gives me much to work with.

After reading over your post a few times I have a few questions. I'm considering taking a stab at adapting the cbr600rr's components.
First, the RR line was made from 01-06, and then modified a bit for the 07-12 years. Would the charging equipment be the same from 01-12?
Second, you mentioned that the RR flywheel has a step and threads that prevent it from sitting as far back on the taper as the R6's. Is this preferable, or does the R6's have the advantage here?
Lastly, I will also need to purchase the stator correct? Not just the flywheel? Is the stator compatable with the stock cb550 cover? I imagine it would have to be modified somewhat at least

The r6 has the advantage as for the taper. I suppose the stepped/threaded part on the RR flywheel coule be milled/drilled out but you'd have less contact patch on the taper to the crank. You'd need a matched stator from either bike depending on what rotor you use....and you'd have to make a custom cover or use one of the cb650 covers cut down with the R6 or RR stator cover cut and welded to it in some fashion to mount the stator inside the cover. If the RR rotor is of interest to you, if I choose to go another route I will send it to you for what I have into it.....$35.

Thank you! I appreciate it. I think I will give the R6 system a shot. Any specific year range? Or are they all the same?

Update: after some research it seems that the RR system is much more cost-effective. Maybe I will try that instead.

[Deltarider]

Well, Jonda500, so far nobody has tried to answer our questions.
Here they are once more.

Why does the battery depleting at idle eventually stop the engine when the stock output is sufficient to run the engine even at idle with NO battery??

Good question. Here's another one I dare to ask having never worked in the 'electronics industry' myself. In every schedule of the CB500/550 (cf. p.94 Honda Shop Manual CB500 - CB550) we read that the charging current at 1000 rpm should be 6.5 A. Is that correct and has any of you ever checked this? Caution: select 10A (at least) range on the meter and do not operate electric starter during this test or the test wires will melt before your eyes! And another question. Why is it in the specifications we read: 0.11 kW/2,000 rpm (cf. p 138 and p. 166 of forsaid manual) and 0.13kW/2,000rpm on p. 171 and p. 181?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Hmmm.  I don't have the answers to your questions, but if you run your bike at idle 900-1000 rpm for a sustained period of time, the engine will overheat and seize or you will drain out the battery.

[RAFster122s]

Normally the bikes when used as intended the extended idle is only an issue in stop and go traffic with long waits. It isn't like someone is going to purposely sit at idle for the purpose of only charging the battery. If you are going to be running the bike stationary you have to put a good fan on it to help it cool to extend the time you can safely operate it.  I would imagine during testing you need to consider using an IR temp meter/gun to keep the motor at reasonable temps. The little $10 IR fob at Harbor Freight is adequate for a ballpark estimate and it is cheap.
Using an automotive battery will allow you to do your testing for running the motorcycle but it's load for recharging on your charging circuit will be higher than the motorcycle battery. Don't have the car running when doing this.

David

[Camrector]

Amps produced by the electrixworlds 550 system. Straight from the source.

Idle-2.5amps

3000 rpm  - 5 amps

5000 rpm – 20 amps

8000 rpm -25 amps

10,000 rpm -29 amps.

[Camrector]

Stock cb550
5000rpm -12 amps ( maximum output)